I don’t understand the practice of hiding women away somewhere dirty while they’re menstruating. Men say a woman’s “impure” then. Hello? If she didn’t bleed, you never would have been born. If you’re going to have a segregation practice, shouldn’t it at least be something nice for a woman, like a Mikvah?
Women’s rights activists in Nepal have hailed a Supreme Court order to end discrimination against women during their menstrual cycle.
Women in poor villages in much of western Nepal are forced to stay in dirty cow-sheds outside the home for four days during their monthly period. They are often given unhygienic food and suffer verbal abuse.
The Supreme Court has ordered the government to declare the practice as evil and given it one month to begin stamping the practice out. [Link]
That’s plain wrong, just like hitching a woman to a plow. You’ve still got a long way to go baby, and honestly, a legal change is just the first step.
p.s. Take it from me, Nepali men, yelling at a woman who has the cramps is just not a good idea.
seems to be found in many, many, cultures. anyone know of posited anthropological explanations for this phenomenon?
I am from South India (Tamil Nadu) and a similar custom exists in our community too (esp, Brahmins).
I think the source of this custom could be that someone sometime wanted to make sure that women get enough rest/relaxing time during these painful (to many or some, I Am not sure) times (women used to and still do many of the strenuos house-work) and brought this out. So they remain isolated (no one disturbs them) and get food at their table and relax. But down the line, it must have got changed or morphed into something not intended.
The widespread ‘menstruation = unclean’ taboo seems pretty straightforward: blood in a time before absorbency.
The widespread ‘menstruation = unclean’ taboo seems pretty straightforward: blood in a time before absorbency.
mind elucidating? (ie; are you pointing to a functional relevance of the practice in that segregation concentrates sex during periods of greater fertility? or a cognitive byproduct of concepts that are “innate”)
Ram, my understanding of this practice has little to do with such kindness as letting women get some rest and relaxation while they cramp and bloat. The practice, as it’s been explained to me, has to do with the fact that a woman on her period was considered “dirty” and therefore not welcome in the kitchen to prepare meals for the family, lest she taint everything. Kind of a “ew, she’s dirty, send her away til she stops that bleeding business!And don’t let her touch anything til it stops and she bathes…”
I’m all about full-contact cooking, but my uterus is nowhere NEAR the countertop!
Manish – people had absorbancy long before they had tampons, just like they had diapers long before they had pampers, or hankerchiefs long before they had kleenex.
I also understand – from what I’ve been told – women were sent away because men didn’t understand (and still dont ;)) what was going on with a woman’s body at that time of the month, i.e., no one had related the menstrual cycle to the reproductive cycle. Hence, lack of understanding = freaking out = shunning women from daily activities.
Razib, have you read Mary Douglas’ work on purity and pollution in the Old Testament? Her thesis is that things that don’t fit into neatly defined categories are the ones subject to purity restrictions. According to her menstruation violates boundaries in that it involves something that’s normally inside the body (blood), exiting it.
My point was the blood = pollution taboo. Neither do I want to delve into your point, nor do I have any experience.
while I truly don’t want to get this graphic in the morning (still finishing second-breakfast, and for our more squeamish readers) it’s just a bit different with all the products and convenience of today…
The phrase “on the rag” is very much a literal description of the outdated practice. Y’all can figure out the rest
how does that “cute” phrase go: “how can you trust something that bleeds for a week and doesn’t die.”
Something like that. Men, and more disturbingly women, often peddle the shame associated with menstruation. Why else are we looking for ways to get smaller more discreet tampons, and why are men so squamish about buying feminine products…
Ram, I’ve heard the same story, except that I was told that the religious leaders had to incorporate into religious practice in order to make the peasants give their women, especially daughter-in-laws, some rest. So they said women were dirty during this time and shouldn’t be allowed to touch anything.
Regardless of origin, what I don’t get is that with all the new absorbtion techniques and knowledge of what the menstrual cycle is etc. why this practice continues today.
I have a friend (in the UK) who married into a family where she is not allowed to touch ANYTHING in the kitchen or mandir area, discouraged from going into the living room, and has special dishware that is set aside for “that time of the month.” She also has to sleep on a separate bed. This is an extreme case, but I know plenty of women who go through bits and pieces of this type of segregation during their periods. And these women live in the UK/USA, and are young and educated.
By the way, my cousin and her hubby are pharmacists, and her in-laws are doctors, her MIL, an OB-GYN, no less. So basically it comes down to antiquated cultural values blindly being passed down from one generation to the next.
KenyanDesi, I know what you mean. I know teenagers who have grown up in the US who buy into the “can’t touch this” culture of their homes. I was told – by a 19-year-old I know – that she wasn’t allowed to go into the kitchen and get sodas/chips/pakodas/whatever for everyone because she was “dirty” and had major reservations about “spoiling” the food for everyone else. She felt shameful in a way that I am having difficulty putting into words.
it’s probably a really really bad idea to keep a PMS/DMS-ing woman away from the chips and snacks. Know what? I don’t care if I “dirty them up”, it means that you can’t eat my doritos and mint milano cookies. Now hand me that DVD of “Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants” and some Midol and bugger off!
No, on the serious tip. Making women feel bad about their bodies and treating them like dirty animals during their periods is some seriously antiquated nonsense that makes about as much sense as avoiding black cats…
DesiDancer, hahaha. So true. I’ve touched everything – including statues of Saraswati and Ganesh during my period. Sheesh, how the heck does anyone know what time of the month it is if ya don’t tell them?
With few exceptions, most societies practiced gender stratification, with men being sacred (semen being life) and women being polluting. Or to put it another way, men controlled women by reasoning that as hunters/providers, they were superior, and looked for differences to bolster that claim. Many anthropologists have argued that the woman’s job of gathering grain, seed, fruit, etc often contributed a larger(or more consistant) part to tribal diet than the meat hunters brought in.
As menarche marks a girl as a woman (in reproductive terms) and since menses mean she is not fertile, she is seen as additionally polluting. Several cultures enforced banishment of some type or another – restricting the women to a certain area, limiting contact with other people for her touch is ‘unclean,’ etc.
In more egalitarian societies, seclusion was practiced as a way for women to bleed in peace before the advent of underwear or freely available cloth.
In certain cases, women had to wear some sort of marker indicating that they were menstruating, and therefore not sexually available. A red string around the wrist or waist in some cultures.
Er, lesson over. Sorry to bore:)
asically there is not a single effn reason why women should be treated as ‘unclean’ today, and Kenyandesi’s story of that Brit woman’s in-laws makes me wanna throw the contents of a slaughterhouse through their front windows. Purify that, mtherfckers.
Who says a menstruating woman is not “sexually available”?
😉
I was raised in a very different kind of house so these stories HORRIFY me. My mom was away when I started my period, so I went to my dad and he took me to the store, and didn’t make a big deal of it. I was 10 I think it would have crushed me if my dear dad thought I was unclean or any of that non-sense. My mom at one point said I couldn’t go for bhajans/religious ceremonies when I was bleedin’ but after I talked to her (at length) she’s come around. The beautiful thing is that my dad and brother supported me and also worked on my (more traditionally raised) mom. Now I go to relegious ceremonies any time I like, with her blessing.
But there is hope. One of our family friends have a boy and younger daughter. The mom won’t let the girl go to mandir on her period, the dad stays out of the fray, but the brother stands by his sister (outside the temple) when they go because she is aparently allowed to come for the food, just not the service. WTF? and when I talk to her about it, she sounds so dejected.
no shit.
tee hee
I love Gloria Steinem’s take on “If Men Had Periods”
My fave:
After a little more research, I’m not really sure who wrote the If Men Had Periods piece. it might be Steinem, or not. Anyone know for sure?
that is so true .. love it =)
Ha, I love that Gloria Steinem piece.
Here it is posted in its entirety:
I was raised the same way…when I started my period I couldn’t go inside the mandir, or hold the thali when we did arti, or touch any food that made its way to puja. It was humiliating, not because of having the period itself, but because of the absolute lack of privacy. The worst part is, guys have no idea!! I mentioned this in a conversation once and all the girls were nodding emphatically while the guys were like, “Whah?”
Cica, isn’t it customary in some Sri Lankan cultures to have a “period party”? I was so impressed when I first heard about this. What a cool way to make it feel like something special about growing up, rather than making them feel dirty and confused. Do you know if the same sort of taboos apply to menstruating women?
I had never heard of this either. I’m not Hindu, but I’m quite surprised to hear about this, in this day and age. If I had known, I would have made reference to it in the post. The things you learn from comments … is this widespread in the USA?
I thought it was customary in some South Asian cultures to announce when a pre-teen girl began menstruating – with a rite a passage event – so that the ‘community’ would know that she was of child-bearing age and able to be married. Is this what you are referring to, Rupa?
Ennis, I think it’s widespread in the US. We never followed the custom in my house – party because we aren’t that religious. But outside of the home, at pujas and such, I heard it of it a lot, whispered among the women in the kitchen. What’s most surprising to me, though, is that I know young (12-18 year old) women buying into it, as I mention before. Ugh… we have a long way to go…
My Mother wouldn’t let me take communion while I was having my period, b/c I was “unclean” and thus had no right to be near the altar. I was deeply religious at the time and totally horrified at such news. I remember thinking “that’s not right” and it still isn’t.
:+:
about rituals related to getting your first period:
from here.
This was an article about tsunami survivors in Sri Lanka, fyi.
Ah. Boy. Um. It’s true. I had one. (is there no end to where Sepia will go?! AAHH!!)
I think it’s a Sinhalese tradition since my tamil mom was rather confused…she was supposed to place a specific kind of metal (ward off something? To give stregnth? Metaphoric iron replacement?) and specific leaves under my mattress when it started.
She got the leaves right, but I vividly remember her shoving a scythe under my bedding and, oozing embarassment, telling me not to ask questions.
I was also not allowed to shower until ended, and confined to my bed.
So when all the relatives came bearing gifts, I smelled like ass and wasn’t allowed to hop around having fun.
Nicest part? People bring jewellery. Small earrings, bangles, etc approproate for a young girl. Generally gold.
Of course, this being MY life, my six-month-older cousin got hers the week before, so all the relatives were tapped out. Meager haul for me.
My Ismaili friends couldn’t go to Khane (Mosque) and all my Hindu desi friends here (in the US)adhere to the no-mandir/pooja etc during menstruation. They don’t stay out of the kitchen though…maybe because their moms needed the help there?
Rupa do you know that the piece is by Steinem. I want to pass it on, but I don’t want to misapproprate credit 🙂
Rani, maybe that’s what the period party was for in the old-school days. I’ve only heard about it from some of my Sri Lankan girlfriends…at some point soon after a young lady’s first period they’ll have a big party for her…maybe akin to Sweet 16 or quincenera?
My own mum still swears that papadum will turn red if a menstruating woman cooks it! (No matter how many scientific experiments I’ve done showing her otherwise.)
I know these practices are very commonplace in India, and anecdotally they seem to be the norm for many families abroad as well.
Obviously it’s easy to enforce when girls are still at home with their parents, and you’re right, who’s gonna know if you don’t tell them? But I find that when I’m in a religious situation with my mother I follow the rules because of how important it is to her. Besides, if I didn’t tell her and she somehow found out, she’d probably make me autoclave all the murthis and bleach the whole house.
No taboos really. You didn’t really feel special either, except for aunties pinching your cheeks and whispering about how you were a “big girl now!” General feeling—all pervading embarrassment. Typical sort of any 12 year old anywhere.
One thing that was really nice was that it was quite ok to say you had your period (NOT in mixed company of course!), felt like hell, and were going to have a bit of a nap. None of this US, “look at me running!swinning!hourse-back-riding!aerobicizing! all while bleeding gently into my tampon!!!!’ nonsense.
Sure, having your period shouldn’t stop you from doing what you want, but it’s like it’s swung so far the other way here, it’s looked on as a lame excuse if you try to call in sick to work or something. I know er, friends, who get queasy, have motion sickness, etc besides blindingly painful cramps.
I went back by myself when I was 18, and hung out 24/7 with two 17yr old boy cousins. When I first got my period there, by grandmother quietly told me to “tell those boys you have a headache. Don’t run around this afternoon!”
Of course I told them, and realized how their sex-ed classes kept this part of a woman’s reproductive cycle heavily shrouded in mystery. “What! Your’ BLEEDING!” the younger one yelped..to which the older one smacked him over the head and said, “what they hell do you think they do? Squirt ice cream?!”
best line ever;)
Nope, kanyandesi, I’m a sinner. I just copied it off this website and I’m not even certain it’s by Gloria Steinem.
(Your cousin is cute…he didn’t know that women menstruated blood?? That’s pretty progressive that they’re getting sex ed, but what are they being taught?)
Well, they’re taught the basics, but in such abstract clinical terms that no one really understands more than fit A into slot B. And I bet the girls’ sex ed is even more vague. The older cousin knew what happened during a woman’s period because he had an older (by 5 years) sister…and she wasn’t shy about telling him what went on.
But yeah, I never realized it, but I guess Sri Lanka was/is(?) pretty progressive for a south asian country with that stuff.
Of course, in the most rural parts, women were supposedly more liable to be ‘possessed’ while menstruating (they really would start foaming at the mouth, hallucinate, trance states etc) because women are more vulnerable to demons at that time, etcetc…chickens are killed, exorcism rituals practiced…
Hard to say what it’s really about…Did women convince themselves that they WERE possesed? Were they jsut coincidentally sick? A way to dodge a problem or get attention/sympathy in a provincial village where the woman was gaining a ‘reputation’? Even people who were city-fied and scoffed at the exorcisms still felt too uncomfortable/unnerved/superstitious when it came to talking about it.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA…I just burst out laughing and my coworkers are now staring at me…hehe
We had sex-ed in 5th grade, and it was taught by Father Giordano (picture a short (5’2″), balding, Italian man who tucked his tie into his pants. he was the headmaster, I went to a Catholic primary school), in a co-ed classroom and he left nothing out. We were all stunned to pin-drop silence because we hadn’t been warned. He just showed up one day and took over the entire afternoon class period.
In 6/7/8th grades they separated us and re-taught it, along with some of the more complicated hormonal stuff. I’m glad they did, because I got my period very young, before my mom had preped me for it.
I don’t know if any of you have watched/read the thornbirds series/book but I always cry/ache when I think of the little girl who’s crying because she thinks she’s bleeding to death because her mom hasn’t explained anything to her.
That’s pretty surprising to me…….. Never before heard of stuff like this happening in the Mallu Xtian community. But well, that being India, and I being a guy, my ‘not having heard of’ something like this does not necessarily have to mean it did not exist, I guess. But still, it’s shocking.
Neither have I, I am surprised too.
That was the extent of my monthly persecution, aside from the severe cramping, that is…I don’t want to paint an inaccurate picture. I was still allowed, actually expected to go to church. It was just communion that was off limits. This had one practical application; it’s best to take ibuprofen with food or milk, neither of which is permitted if I’m fasting in preparation for communion. At THAT time of the month, I need the medicine more than I need some Jesus, TRUST me.
Does it really surprise you that much? The taboo exists across boundaries, cultures, faiths. I mean, the old testament discusses it with Jewish Women.
I come from an ultra-Orthodox family. My mom was more old-fashioned about these things than my father; then again, I’d never speak to my father about menstruation, daddy’s girl or not. I’ve seen evidence of a Jewish “influence” with my ancestors, perhaps that explains my apparently anomalous experience.
I’ve seen evidence of a Jewish “influence” with my ancestors, perhaps that explains my apparently anomalous experience.
there have long been jews in kerala, so that might make sense. but as you note, this is close to a cultural universal in terms of manifesting itself throughout the world. i think this is an example of “evoked culture” where common motifs reoccur in disparate locations because of the intersection of innate human cognitive biases (confusions regarding the essence of blood and what not) and environmental commonalities (in this case, the female biology is the environment!). also, i know that some eastern christian groups, and ethiopian christians for that matter, tend to be more ‘hebraic’ in their attitude toward the jewish law.
.
yeah, somehow it sounded surprising. I’m just guessing here, but it could have something to do with your background being Orthodox, mine is Catholic. Like the other point you mentioned, about fasting in preparation for communion – we (at least in my circles) did not do that. My knowledge of the Orthodox church is pretty bad, but sounds like we Catholic might have more ‘watered-down’ views. Also, if I am remember correctly, your parents came over here a few decades ago – this might have been the prevailing custom across all Xtian groups at that time, maybe your mom just held on to it. I have no idea how it was like for my mom as a young girl.
The only inkling I ever had of the religious/traditional connotations of menstruation was while watching some Tamil movie in which showed pujas being done when a girl reached puberty. I think it was Kamalahaasan’s ‘Mahanadi’.
You have a wonderful memory. They landed in NY 35/33 years ago.
I feel like calling her and asking her more about this “taboo”…I have a feeling you’re right about “pickled philosophies”.
Tamils do it too, it’s almost like a religious ceremony actually, but i think different families get into it to varying degrees
dont ask me anything about it though, i never understood what was going on
it is really stupid to think of menstruatation as impure because how on earth can the reason we are all here be “impure”
maybe its to do with “original sin”?
its just such a shame that religion is polluted with this idea because its the time when we are trying to be close to the life force that surrounds all of us. if a menstruating woman, who is able to give life, is impure, then what they hell are the greedy priests doing in there??
<
blockquote>Making women feel bad about their bodies and treating them like dirty animals during their periods is some seriously antiquated nonsense that makes about as much sense as avoiding black cats…
Avoiding black cats is barbaric.
I went out with a Catholic Goan boy whose parents were from Bombay/Goa and they fasted before receiving communion. And his parents came here 20 years ago. i also remember them teaching the Catholics in my primary school to fast before communion, so maybe it’s just, like you say, in your circle?
According to catholic.com:
Sorry, I meant to say,
Avoiding black cats is barbaric.
thats hilarious!!
Gold Star for you today cica!!
people can have stupid ideas about what’s normal in “their” religion. i knew a girl who dated a guy who was roman catholic and who happened to be uncircumcised. he explained that “even though he was christian” his mom decided not to have him circumcised. in the USA, where the vast majority (around 75% today, 90%+ 25 years ago, when he was born) of young males are circumcised, and they clearly do not read the letters of paul in the new testament, you have a situation where someone simply assumed that since jews circumcise for religious reasons christians must too….*
p.s. it is going to the weird and personal shit that will surprise in terms of “but you are X and so am i but you do Y and i do Z…why?” since those are the ones unlikely to be mooted in public.
I had a vague notion that Tamil families did it too, Ananthan, (Tamil friends at school would talk about the “big girl” thing in much the same way)…but my mother is very catholic and vesternized, so her family didn’t really follow most traditional Tamil customs….My father is from a very traditional Sinhalese Buddhist family, so as long as we were raised catholic, my mom didn’t care what got stuffed under our mattresses.
Was your mom presented with a thali when she got married? It’s big ornate necklace given by the Tamil groom to his bride?
Since my mom married a Sinhalese she doesn’t have one, but South Indian Tamils (that I’ve spoken to) don’t seem to know what I’m talking about.
If south Indian Tamils don’t do the ‘period party’ thing either, I wonder if all of this speaks to a common Sri Lankan tradition…with Sinhalese and Tamil variations, but nonetheless…common ceremonies and traditions unique to Sri Lanka. Something to hold onto, eh?
and thanks PB, I do my best. Hopefully ice cream will never be the same for you again 😉
Oh well, here we go again. There are LOTS of differences in culture between Catholics in Goa/Mangalore/Bombay and Kerala. There is a reason why most of us in Kerala are Syrian Catholics, while most Goan Catholics are Latin Catholics. But we both still are Roman Catholics, so go figure. I guess it is too much to expect a non-Christian to understand the differences, they can be pretty subtle. or not.
THe law about fasting for an hour before communion is taught to us too. Those laws (5 of them, I think) also contains directives like “give 10% of your income to the church”. I doubt whether anyone does that. And the Old Testament is the same for everyone, so the bits about ejaculation/mestruation being impure is there in our Bible too.(the same book, ‘Leviticus’ is also the source of the ‘An eye for an eye’ system of justice.Do we follow that?) The difference lies in how each society implements it. Note the “watered-down” in my earlier post. Mallu syrian catholics are generally more laid-back than most Latin Catholics, or apparently from Anna’s comments, some Orthodox xtians. ( I actually know a Jacobite family who gives a lot of money to their church. Its not really 10%, but at least they try.)
And your excerpt says “for at least the period of one hour before Holy Communion” . Do you think, reading Anna’s comment, that it was only one hour that she was supposed to fast?
laid-back about religious observations, I meant.
So true 😉
Nina P- I’m in love with your cat. He looks like one of mine from several years ago 🙁
I thought it was totally the other way round.;). But AFAIK, both Latin and Syrian Catholics I know observe the one hour rule.
ANNA, I am still surprised (and shocked) about the practice you mention. Again AFAIK there is no such official practice and when I say official I mean – there is this little preparatory course sort of thing that kids have to go thru before First Holy Communuion and I don’t think they told the girls there – no communion during menstruation. Anyways I may not be aware of this.
razib_t_a says:
Jews probably have been there for long, but given their numbers/influence in Kerala I wonder. Care to elaborate Razib.