One of my closest friends is getting married this Thanksgiving. We went to the same high school in Maryland and were roommates at the University of Michigan. I know his lovely fiancé as well (she coincidentally has the same last name). With two months to go I was starting to look for a present for them. Then, both FOBish and Neha sent in this tip. In Neha’s words “Kaliyug is upon us for sure.” The Telegraph reports:
Young Patels getting married in Britain apparently expect the most expensive wedding gifts from their guests, according to research conducted by John Lewis, the Oxford Street department store.On their “wish list” are items such as plasma television screens — they alone cost £5,000 each — Royal Doulton crockery, champagne stoppers and top-of-the-range fridge-freezers.
John Lewis picked four of the most common surnames in Britain by consulting the Office of National Statistics — Patel, Jones, Smith and Cohen — and compared their wedding gift lists.
Ha! Patel is the new Jones. I’m a bit skeptical of the so-called “research” cited in this article though. To be fair, my friend and his fiance are not at all like the couples described in this article. If they secretly are then they are going to be sorely disappointed by their broke-ass friends.
… research done by John Lewis reveals that Indians are becoming as shameless as the English. Young Patel couples come into the store before the wedding and draw up their ideal list by choosing from the 500,000 goodies that are available. They think nothing of sticking the priciest gifts on their list…Mr and Mrs Jones tend to ask for cheaper gifts such as hammocks, champagne buckets and coffee makers, with a £500 barbecue the most expensive item asked for.
Mr and Mrs Smith go for sofas, board games and microwave equipment for the kitchen. Although John Lewis would not dream of saying so, they seem even duller than the Jones.
Mr and Mrs Cohen request items such as fondue sets, Le Creuset pans and egg poachers from their wedding guests. Again, their taste leaves much to be desired.
I’m sorry but I’m with the Patels on this one. If someone brings me a board game or a fondue set then they are dead to me. Here is the take-away message:
McCulloch said: “Our latest research has highlighted some fascinating insights into wedding list preference, including the fact that couples with the same surnames are more likely to have similar wedding gifts. If you are after the ultimate and most opulent wedding lists, full of luxury goods and sensational extravagances, then it’s keeping up with the Patels that really counts.”
The Kali Yuga is upon us all.
Sumita-
Honestly, it’s not that hard. Usually it’s not the couple who turns it into a circus, but others in the families. Whether ridiculous one-upsmanship or the fact that both sets of parents have to invite every single brown person they ever shook hands with, plus then the siblings jump in with a list of friends they want there… all the drama, the new dynamics of a family, how to invite both people in a divorced couple, who can’t sit next to whom at dinner because of politic or grudges or whatever bakwaas, general selfish displays of histrionics… well, it can go from 0 to Circus in a few short moments.
Where couples make the mistake is in thinking this is “your day”. It’s not, but every single day afterwards is; the wedding is just the kickoff party, not the destination. Don’t get me wrong, I had a blast with mine, but it would probably be cooler to be a wedding planner because it’s not your own family involved 🙂
Desi Dancer, I am desi through and through, and I also handwrote all my thank-you cards within two months of our wedding. Yes, it’s not desi ‘custom’ but it’s a nice gesture.
Well said, DD!
DesiDancer
Thats why when I find my girl I am going to Las Vegas to get hitched – forget all that hype and stress of the modern day Indian wedding in the west – nightmare.
Just me, my sweetheart, and an Elvis impersonator – so romantic.
DD
Very well said!!
here is a thought(obviously i dont have answers)
Do the parents in turning it into a circus display a lack of sanctity for the seriousness of it, or do they truly do not know it is a relationship one cannot take for granted. In this, do they not have the responsibility to recognize the solemnity of the occasion, as they have supposedly been through its trials and tribulations.
Sumita
Punjabi Boy – ya still single? Me thinks you were hooked and father of few.
Sumita,
I think this whole thing varies according to the religion of the family somewhat too (along with a whole bunch of other factors too, of course).
Sikhs: Non-Amritdharis — ie. the non-Baptised majority who aren’t as devout as the full 5K Sikhs — usually seem to have a big party afterwards with bhangra, booze etc (probably varies depending on whether the family drinks or not too, although most in the UK seem to). The actual ceremony in the gurdwara is actually pretty serious; SMers who have ever been to a Sikh wedding will know what I mean, it’s quite a different experience to attending a typical Hindu wedding ceremony. The fact that Sikh weddings — or at least the main ceremony — have to take place in a gurdwara (ie. not in a hotel, school hall etc) also quite strictly enforces decorum.
Amritdhari Sikhs — Take the ceremony very seriously indeed. Usually no party afterwards (and definitely no booze & bhangra); everyone just goes and eats the langar in the gurdwara.
Hindus: I expect this is going to vary wildly from region to region and family to family. However, most Hindu weddings I’ve been to don’t enforce a sufficient level of solemnity on the part of the guests — everyone talks continuously, you can’t even hear what the priest is saying, and a worrying proportion of the guests don’t even pay attention to what is happening during the “7 pheras”. A lot of people seem to come just for the food and even start helping themselves while the wedding ceremony is still going on, if the food is made available to them. I blame the priests for allowing all this to happen and not enforcing silence and attention — can you imagine how direspectful all this kind of behaviour is to the young couple getting married ? However, I’m told it’s a little different for families who decide to have the wedding inside a mandir/temple. Most people seem to choose not to do this, however.
I’ve never been to a South Asian Muslim wedding so can’t comment on that — perhaps Razib or someone would be the best person to offer some insight.
Lord Have Mercy – why you think that?
Jai
I’m told it’s a little different for families who decide to have the wedding inside a mandir/temple
Yes, all you say is true. As a hindu, I find the irreverence most Hindus exhibit towards the serious aspect of marriage very disturbing. Noone seems to know what vows they took or what the pheras mean or what the mantras stand for. If the ceremony is a joke, one must dispense with it and opt for a civil wedding. That would be a gesture of integriy, in my opinion. But they dont do that either, turning everything into a farce.
I also think it stems from the fact, the parents and family seem to take the future strength and commintment of marriage for granted, not realising how their values may influence things for years to come. How many couples spend years resolving petty issues created by silly parents at weddings, putting unnecessary strain on an already demanding relationship? In this , I feel parents’ thoughtlessness borders on selfish. (in many occasions, not all)
I have seen this time and again. My husband and I were very careful about not letting our parents’s difference in culture, community and expectations affect us. (It took effort)Was not as automatic as people expect.
There are lies perpetuated about marriage and this bluff should be called. Young and thinking folks (like most here) have the ability to do so.
Sumita
My small rebellion was to have the ceremony after the revellers left, only with loving family members around me. It gave me the space to understand the vows, the ceremony and its meaning and time to contemplate on it.
Just in case it sounds very serious, we went for a fantastic honeymoon the very next day, which even though I have been on every kind of vacation, romantic and adventurous, in my life, (still more than a decade after my wedding), the most memorable part of spending time with my husband.
It still serves as the gold standard.
Sumita
Sumita, While I should stay on “this side” of the line and not get too much into personal details/info here… I can say this much:
We were often frustrated in our wedding planning because it seemed elders had their own ideas of how it should all play out. Despite the fact that those ideas were often the direct opposite of us and our personalities, certain issues were really pushed on us. Was it a bad wedding for it? No, and probably no one was the wiser whether we did or didn’t have medium or large flower arrangements, or no flowers at all… and half the time we’d acquiesce because [insert issue here] was more important to the elders than to us, individually and as a couple. I’m not scarred from the experience, I don’t hold it against anyone per se. BUT, with that said, I sometimes remember all the hurdles, all the headaches, all the hours arguing on the phone… even when I’d rather remember the beautiful moments.
It did come across as a lack of respect for the gravity of what we were doing. I waited til later than desi-standard to get married and it was because I took that step in life very seriously. I believe I will only do this once, so I wanted a wedding that I would be satisfied with for the rest of my days. Not the fanciest, not the most lavish display of wealth, not the most ridiculous guest list… but something that was “Us”. When we were backed into corners or forced to accept certain issues regarding the wedding it did come off as a bit disrespectful because it was dictating a vision different than “Us”.
I would have appreciated a bit more sensitivity from family members– our wedding was different from their weddings, from your wedding, from anyone else’s wedding, because we are 2 unique people. As all couples are. And so while our choices may not have been what the elders wanted, I felt that it was important to remain true to ourselves and to really have a wedding that was part of us. Some of that was compromised, but I didn’t budge off the stuff that was really important to me. If I could offer advice to our families for the next time, I’d say “let the kids design it how they want. Suggest if you want, but don’t make this some living-vicariously fantasy of yours. If you raised them to be solid in who they are, why stifle that expression now?” If they insist on doing their first dance to Mundian To Bach Ke, just roll your eyes and let’em get down.
And to the kids, I’d say “Just forget it. Don’t back down if it’s really important to you, but if it isn’t– just let ’em have a bone. Your parents have waited for this day since the day you were born, and it’s kind of hard for them… cut them some slack, it’s just one day. And then the rest of the days afterwards are yours, all yours…”
On a sidenote– I caught a TON of crap for registering, because it wasn’t the desi thing to do. But other than 2-3 things, we got exactly what we wanted. So 😛
Inevitably there is one foolish auntie who thinks “hmm, it must be an oversight that they didn’t register for a lead crystal punchbowl and cakeplate… I’ll get it for them anyway!” But the registry saved me 100 trips to different stores to return duplicate or useless merchandise. It’s a polite way to keep bad taste out of your home. 🙂
Bingo, Sumita. A couple friends, cousins, acquaintences of all cultures and religions have all expressed this to me. Spot on!
DesiDancer is married!!!
ties noose around neck
awww, PB!
PB
On that wonderful note(of a Vegas style wedding), if you let us know, champagne’s on me.(Dont worry, ill get it delivered, not tell the ones you are running away from)
In true auntie style!!!
Sumita
Sumita
It will be cheeseburgers for the reception and blackjack and roulette for all – then honeymoon in the tackiest hotel – I like the one that looks like the Egypt Pyramid.
Sadly, DesiDancer would only be the as a guest.
I walked out of a wedding in protest once when the first dance was to Celine Dion. This was a Punjabi wedding. The couple smooched to Celine Dion. I staged a walkout. Then we realised all the pubs were shut and the whisky was behind us. So we withdrew our protest and returned to the scene of the crime. The bridegroom has never lived that down. Men – dont let your wives choose the first tune.
PB, even tackier when couples smooch to desi movie songs like Phela Nasha, Kabhi Kabhi, Chura Liya. We nixed the whole “first dance” thing altogether. And mother-son dances. And father-daughter dances. Oy…
DD, I could have written post #60. Your comments and observations are spot-on. Although, everyone loved using the registry. Maybe because it was a novelty :).
🙁 I’ll dance an item number at your sangeet, PB. Then we can cut to a montage of your recounting all our lovely exchanges and where you went wrong by not proclaiming your love for me sooner. Then you’ll look at Bipasha Basu, your lovely bride, and know that while you took the hard road, your life is better without me. Then a gaggle of extras from K3G will come in their designer threads and dance around the happy couple, while cutting away to closeups of Uncleji, getting hammered at the bar…
Auntie you offering ? 😉
You misunderstand my marriage is wild, exciting and dangerous ! (despite being arranged)much like driving in a ravine Plus I have my fundementalist nephew (hint hint) to be keep me on the straight and narrow.
As the beautiful but asexual woman with the suspiciously large adam apple said to the Granthi/pundit/mullah after the night of passion thats for me to know and you to worry about 😉
Or maybe they ALL are valid or NONE are valid or Some are valid and some are not.
Rani, let’s go get a bottle and commisserate funny wedding tamaasha 🙂
The Real Auntieji chose (and this is true) “Careless Whisper” for the opening dance. Though after Sumita’s questions it could more a case of “careless posting” on my part
Uncleji
You are incoherent now.
Its fine. No need to answer(really!!)
Sumita
(nah, since you don’t take gentle hints, and ego affirming ones too, how do I tell you that my choices are , lets say, er, (am trying very hard to be gracious) a wee bit different from what you have to offer. )
Not so much jokers like my Uncleji have started to allow the Guru Granth Sahib Ji into hotels and banqueting halls so that the religion doesn’t get in the way of the boozing and eating. Thats why I have some sympathy for the “Respect for Guruji” movement
That is terrible.
Even tackier is when the bridegroom, your cousin, gets sharaabi and jumps on stage to sing Kabhi Kabhi to his lady – forget about the high notes he couldnt even hit the low notes…
DD
You broke my heart.
Uncleji
Though after Sumita’s questions it could more a case of “careless posting” on my part
Ahhh! That was sweet. and in that admission, now you have my admiration
Sumita
Punjabi Boy,
Don’t assume that all women will choose crappy music!!! If the woman is cool, then you needn’t worry. But, really, your friend should know better to get hitched to someone with such yucky taste. Sadly, guys will overlook bad taste if there are other benefits (see that new Apprentice girl, Toral, post).
PB, if you end up getting married to Toral, be prepared to dance to Toni Braxton!!! And then have her force you to accompany her to some crappy movie every weekend for the rest of your lives!!
You were my route to a Green Card.
But you cant deny women are more sappy than men!
Me and Toral wouldnt get that far – she would just use me as a piece of Punjabi rough stuff in between her power breakfasts and jet set business deals – the wicked minx.
I can deny it. With my ELECTRIC GUITAR. boo-ya! And no, I am not an anomaly. Maybe your friends date wusses.
I admit nothing and I’m just off to impress some ladies with my impressive bushy Moustache and 1970’s Merc. Sumita You really don’t know the signifance of a woman with a large adams apple (read the article then you’ll get the joke)
Fudmentalist nephew come on don’t be so narrow minded. The Guru Granth Sahib is given full respect and its way of being far away from a Gurdwara getting a Sikh Wedding.
Can I make a request not to turn this thread into a Respect For Guru Granth Sahib debate? Lets keep it light. Jokes and things.
You are the exception that proves the rule.
Where is Bongo these days?
And where the hell did all these English dudes come from?
Used to be I was the only one here and I was so special they loved my jokes and observations and accent and now I’m nothing special – I dont get the same attention anymore.
I’m afraid Bipasha pahenji is already betrothed to someone else — she’s engaged to the former-model-turned-surprisingly-good-actor John Abraham. Sorry to smash your romantic dreams twice in one day, PB (seeing as how DD has already done it once). Well, there’s always Mallika Sherawat, assuming you can handle her.
….And simultaneously hitting on the coy-but-willing leggy blonde bartender, showing her the gold medallion on the chain around his neck and drawling “O kiddan….babydoll….o shweety darrrling”…..Like a bearded & turbaned Prem Chopra….
Punjabi Boy,
Yeah but you wouldn’t complain too much would you, eh mundea ? wink
While on the subject of dancing and Indian weddings, let’s not forget the part where — at least at Sikh weddings — the DJ plays the old film song “Aaj Mere Yaar Ki Shaadi” hai for the 15th time and some unlucky guy over 6 foot tall (usually the groom’s brother or cousin) has to hoist the groom up on his shoulders yet again, while his back is supported by 5 of his closest male associates so they don’t both fall over….
hey! there is only ONE Punjabi Boy. All these impersonators don’t fool me.
None of them can post alligators and tigers having a thunderdome match 🙂
I think he must be doing his medical exams or finished them be on one hell of a bender.
And there was me wanting to borrow his old school tie for meeting the Bankwallah
Thats just a chilling good thumbnail sketch. Bemused rather then willing I think Jai. Thank God for Eastern Europe joining the EU. Where else would we get all those poorly paid waiteresses, cleaners and massage parlour staff. How else can impress the folks back in Ludhania with the white folk doing your housework (apologies Nina)
Accept no substitute eh?
That picture takes pride of place in some wedding albums.
I wanna know what tune Angie with an Electric Guitar would play first on her day.
PB
You know the cute Sen sisters? Rima and Raima?
There is a thought!!(a lot better than Mallika, maybe, dunno)
Sumita
Everyone has turned into matchmaker now.
The trouble is I get bored too easily.
Jai
You must post warning and choking alert before posting these hysterical word visuals. I could actually see it….!!!
Gross!!!(hate “Mera naam hai Prem, prem chopra” with leery look) There are better villains now.
laughing
Sumita
PB,
A vegas wedding is definitely the way to go. the hubby and I had a vegas wedding (sigh, no elvis impersonator though) at the same chapel that britney spears later married at. wow, now we have something exciting to tell our kids.
Uncleji,
A lot of those Eastern European girls are really hot. Maybe we could hook up Punjabi Boy with one of those, since he keeps getting dumped by cough I mean “bored” with the local South Asian ladies…
Remember Yana Gupta ? The Czech model who’s now an item girl in Bollywood after marrying a local guy ? Maybe someone like that…
Sumita,
You can imagine Uncleji simultaneously fingering his long beard suggestively…..Gives the ladies something to hold onto, I guess…Know what I mean ?
laughing The wily ol’ silver mongoose, as I keep saying…
That’s a good question! Gee, I dunno: I don’t think I know any romantic type songs! Okay, maybe a few mazzy star songs, but I don’t think I could admit, let alone, PLAY such mushy songs in public. I’m a bit immature with the whole showing of emotion thing: nope, couldn’t do it.
So, in place of romantic stuff, a mariachi band would be set to rock the house, and maybe I’d join them. Or maybe I’ll get myself a sitar- I’m pretty sure I could learn! Aside: I keep asking everyone to get me a sitar from India everytime they visit, but they completely ignore me, in classic, “you’re veird, different and unmainstream-vat a strrange girrl! behave normal” indian parent style. You’d think they’d understand my need to connect with my roots in some fashion, but NO! They bring me back really bad gold jewellery instead.
Sumita: I hear your angst regarding the insincerity in traditional indian marriages. I agree wholeheartedley. I know the ceremony can be quite long, but is it too much to ask for the guests to be at least a little discrete and quiet-er during? Sheesh! And I’m supposed to be the un-indian one! If they don’t shut up during the ceremony, I threaten to whoop out the electric guitar and play death metal.
You are groovy.
Dont knock the gold jewellry – can always melt it down and sell it in times of crisis.
Okay, jokes aside, here are some more serious thoughts with regards to some of the issues raised here, in particular by Sumita and DD.
I think one of the fundamental problems with many – not all – of the older generation is a lack of genuine spirituality. Not lack of religion — please note the difference. People may or may not go through all the surface rituals and pay lip service to what they regard as the core tenets and practices of their respective faiths, but if there is an insufficient level of spiritual awareness within them, that is going to carry over into how they behave with both the wedding situation and indeed the entire process leading up to the wedding – the selection of the potential spouse, the method by which the relationship should be conducted (in their view) and so on. This also of course involves how everyone concerned – the young couple, their families, and the guests – behave at the wedding itself; the lack of reverence mentioned by Sumita etc.
There is a very strong streak of thinking and acting as “social politicians” within Indian – indeed South Asian – culture, and if this ego-driven “political” mindset outweighs whatever spirituality the person may have within them – that basic integrity, common sense, compassion and decency – that’s the source of so many of the problems we’ve all seen or at least observed in this issue (and in many others with regards to Indian life).
I would, however, venture to say that Indians overseas are probably more religious in the real sense of the term than their counterparts back in India. There is certainly no lack of outward religious observance and alleged devoutness back in the subcontinent – it’s screaming out at you wherever you go and wherever you look – but considering the endemic social and political corruption and injustice presently embedded in the fabric of the culture, the hypocrisy is pretty severe. As we all know, the people who make a big song and dance about how religious they are, are often also the most egotistical and political; even more so because, in traditional Indian culture, being religious is regarded as being better and more praiseworthy than not being religious. So you end up with people putting on a big show, including Indian weddings, while behaving in a manner contradictory to the idealistic core of the faith and, indeed, sometimes defiling the very sanctity of the religious ceremony by their actions, if the marriage is not actually based on the “right” reasons. Even more so if either/both of the parties concerned was bullied/tricked/blackmailed/manipulated into the marriage. And we all know that this happens.
I attended a cousin’s ceremony in Canada, and I think it was wonderful. My cousin was marying a French Canadian girl, and they had 2 ceremonies. for the Desi one, the priest translated everything to English (he was pretty decent too) and then my cousin translated it to French for her parents who didn’t speak much english. It was the FIRST desi ceremony I’ve been to where everyone was respectful of the event, didn’t talk, watched the entire ceremony etc. And we enjoyed it because it was being explained to us.
re: quiet and ‘respect’ during Hindu ceremonies:
It’s very possible if the priest/conductor of ceremonies makes it ‘accessible’ to the audience. At our engagemtent for example, we had pin-drop silence, because before each rite, my sister-in-law explained (in English in an engaging, informed, and lucid way) to both sides of the family what was about to happen. She is brilliant and charismatic; she knows everything about Hindu customs.
Sounds nice and orderly! Was it in Montreal? That would make it perfect. See what magic can happen when you don’t relinquish control to the elders??
Ditto to Kenyandesi’s story. Everyone who attended our ceremony was pin-drop silent once the ceremony began (much shouting and hoo-hah during the jai mala melee) and that may be because it was crucial to us that we understood what the significance of every component of the wedding ceremony meant. We’d gone to great lengths to explain it in the programs, and the panditji explained it in English as well. I think with knowledge, came respect…
Of course, there were plenty of aunties & uncles who skipped the ceremony altogether and simply showed up for dinner buffet and free booze. But at least they weren’t disruptive.
Jai Singh– very interesting, as always. I will probably ponder this the rest of the day, and again at the next family function 😉