Bold strides by Muslim women this weekend. First Sania Mirza, now Hammasa Kohistani, who was just crown Miss England (thanks, Punjabi Boy!):
Hammasa Kohistani, 18, said she was delighted to have been selected to represent England in the Miss World championships.
The brunette, who speaks six languages including Russian, Persian and French, looked ecstatic as the crown was placed on her head before a cheering crowd in Liverpool’s Olympia Theatre. [link]
Well, the BBC says five languages, but who am I to quibble. The Times of India deluged the poor girl in a typical purple gush:
LONDON: Move over our very own, Miss India. Miss England is on her way to Bollywood, the big time and beckoning stardust, now that a Muslim teenager with central Asian roots and a British accent has been crowned England’s most beautiful woman.
But stepped back for sociological analysis:
Kohistani, who was born in the Uzbek capital Tashkent, after her parents were forced to flee Afghanistan, is being touted in a less-than-overwhelmed Britain as the first Muslim to be crowned Miss England.
With beauty contests increasingly regarded as a politically incorrect and chauvinistic relic of a darker British age of cruising for seaside holiday entertainment, Kohistani’s victory has been kept off the Sunday front pages and the slender television news agenda.
But some commentators have expressed an interest in the social and ethnic change represented by Kohistani’s extraordinary win of the England crown, over and above 38 other peaches-and-cream complexioned ‘real’ English roses. [link]
Of course, this wouldn’t be a story about Islam without controversy somewhere:
Among those Miss Kohistani beat was another Muslim entrant, Sarah Mendly, 23, who was voted Miss Nottingham. Miss Mendly had been among the favourites but her entry caused controversy when Liverpool’s Islamic institute called on her to pull out because contestants are often scantily clad. [link]
If you squint, doesn’t Hammasa look a bit like Julia Roberts?
hadith of the shoulder:
Oh believers, do not look upon the naked shoulder of a woman who is a believer! Allah the most merciful and most gracious sees all and on the day of judgement He shall know! If a believing woman shall proffer you her shoulder and she is your wife, that is permissible. If a believing woman shall proffer you her shoulder and she is your concubine, that is permissible on the condition that her family has been paid compensation. If an unbelieving woman shall proffer you her shoulder, that is permissible on the condition that one donates money to the poor believers.
Yes, there is a resemblance. I did have to squint (only a little)though.
Sumita
hadith of plumpness:
oh believers, let not your women-folk be weak and without food so that they come before allah without plumpness to their cheeks on the day of judgement!
Razib, Your quotes look more like verses from the Quran than hadeeths 😉
Is proffering the shoulder some arabic sex position? Kind of hard to imagine what it means.
Tabloid of India doesn’t disappoint, hehe meow meow…
Your quotes look more like verses from the Quran than hadeeths 😉
true. i’ve been reading the koran too much. revision?
hadith of plumpness (argument from analogy):
someone heard from someone heard from someone heard from someone heard from the prophet muhammad, peace be upon him, that the prophet said that come day of judgement, when allah the most merciful and gracious, gazes upon the round form of a woman and the straight form of the woman the round shall be given a boon of merit where the flat shall not. by analogy, round cheeks are preferrable to the flat on the day of judgement.
round shall be given a boon of merit where the flat shall not.
South Indians are supposed to like round women. Is it because of some traits on that Middle-Eastern Haplogroup J found around 10-15% of South Indian population?
Is it because of some traits on that Middle-Eastern Haplogroup J found around 10-15% of South Indian population?
well, if that’s so, it isn’t a neutral locus (if it generates a function, selection can work on that function), so you can’t know if it is “middle eastern.”
so, no.
and don’t all indians kind of like ’em a touch chubby? (vis-a-vi cosmo)
so, no. Okay.
and don’t all indians kind of like ’em a touch chubby? (vis-a-vi cosmo)
All those oversized north Indian girls who act in South Indian movies give a standard excuse that people like them bit fleshy down there. Perhaps, we like few more extra pounds.
For people, who are unaware of south Indian Film Industry, here are some of them whom Manju is talking about..
Kushboo –> The crazy tamil fans have built a temple for her in Trichy.
Jothikha –> Currently leading actress in Tamil
Latest arrival is Namitha (Gujju Girl)
Well, I could keep on going, but this site would become something else then.
WTF!?!?! though they like the plump ones in bangaldesh too….
beats head slowly against desktop
For all you groupies here is an interview with the real Miss England
Razib you wannabe Rushdie, are your “quotes from the Hadith” real (apart from post #6, obviously) or are you just making all this up as you go along ?
Congratulations to the new Miss England anyway. Interesting how she managed to sneak in and clinch the title when most of the media attention (at least in the national newspapers here in the UK) had been on her fellow Muslim contestant from Nottingham.
Next step for future Miss Englands: Miss Patel from Wembley or Miss Sandhu from Southall !
i’m makin’ ’em up, there is stuff in the koran that goes like so….
it is not permissible to do unto believing women like so….
it is permissible to do unto unbelieving concubines that you have attained with your right hand* like so, though it is not encouraged…. (man’s god his needs!)
Yeah I reckon the other Muslim girl – Sarah Mendly from Nottingham was much cuter than the winner Miss Kohistani
Damn – Curves
It is a Zionist fix that Sarah was beaten by the Hindoo sponsored Miss Kohistani – these Uzbek-Zionist-Hindoo conspirers
Q: is it meritous to love a lady of size?
A: muhammad ibn alid was told by ali ibn shazar was told by fard ib muyawa was told by the prophet muhammad, peace be upon him, that khadija, the wife of was endowed with ample back, and it pleased him a greatly. the prophet muhammad, peace be upon him, declared that the bigger the cushin’ the better the pushin’!
Razib, are you trying to get us all killed with a fatwa put on sepia mutiny?
well, manish can always delete it 🙂 i doubt google’s cached it yet.
Q: what should be the course of action if a kufir website insults the memory of the prophet?
A: if the servers are hosted in the dar-al-islam they shall be symbolically stoned and the parts cannibalized and sold on tom’s hardware. if the servers are hosted in a kufir country than it is permissible engage in DNS server jihad, so long as one can confirm that no muslim websites are also located on the same server (if it is a virtual hosting account). extra merit is attained if a windows operating system is being used because the microsoft corporation engages in extortion above and beyond what is permissible in the eyes of allah, the most gracious and merciful.
razib
I was just kidding, say what you want, I dont care – I can only imagine how the Coronation Street Jihadi boys in England are reacting to this shameless and brazen hussy – their shalwaar kameez must be burning up. Anything that annoys them is a good thing.
you know, i got a couple of death threats was i was vice president of an atheist club in college. they interviewed me in the local newspaper, and my phone and all was listed in the student directory if you searched for my name. i didn’t even caller ID them, sounded kind of confused. wonder if it was a prank, though there were accents.
anyway, i’m just reading a translation of the koran on my spare time, so kufirs are on my mind….
btw, julia roberts has veneers on her teeth.
razib
Some of these people – giving out a death threat is like sneezing or masturbating to them – its like a bodily release they have to go through every day.
I wonder if the “jihadi boys” mentioned by Punjabi Boy will be a little more hesitant than usual to harass Miss Kohistani as a result of her not actually being South Asian. Ie, will they feel less “ownership” over her. I guess it depends on what their imams think, if anything. Has anyone noticed that most of the troublemaking imams here in the UK who appear to be causing the biggest problems seem to be from the Middle East rather than the Indian subcontinent (at least those with the highest public profiles), whereas a disproportionate number of their goondas are South Asian.
Anyway, that’s going off-topic a bit. Let’s hope Miss Kohistani doesn’t get hassled by anyone like Deeyah did and that she does well in the impending Miss World contest.
By the way, the other contestant — Sarah Mendly — went to a very well-known university in the South Asian-dominated British city of Leicester. Her flatmates were a Sikh and a Hindu. You can imagine how desified she must be, huh 😉
Miss Kohistani as a result of her not actually being South Asian. Ie, will they feel less “ownership” over her.
isn’t her fam from afghanistan? that’s kind-of-brown. looks like a persian (ie; tajik) name though, but if she is pashtun she should count!
to be from the Middle East rather than the Indian subcontinent (at least those with the highest public profiles), whereas a disproportionate number of their goondas are South Asian.
overcompensation. trying to proof they aren’t hindoos in spirit as well as skin and blood. i gotta shake my head when brown muslims go off about palestine and arabs will be like “kash-what?”
More on Sarah Hendly
Huh? Unlawful?
And Liverpool has an Islamic Institute?
Is no city safe from these fatwa-factories? Not even scousers?
“Unlawful” with regards to Shariah and their interpretation of Islam.
Unfortunately this is the problem. They think that just because someone may be from the same religious background as them (either by hirth or by belief), they have some kind of “ownership” over them and that they therefore have the right to dicate and regulate the other person’s behaviour. Such people have essentially turned their religion into a form of government. Hence all the problems.
I wonder if this is actually why Sarah Mendly didn’t win the contest, ie. there was too much controversy surrounding her (remember what happened in Nigeria during the Miss World contest a couple of years ago). Although I think it would have been good publicity (and would have generally reflected positively on British society) if she’d won, considering the current global focus on Iraq. Anyway, like I said before, while all the attention was on Sarah, Miss Kohistani slipped through the net in the meantime.
*hirth = birth (obviously !)
Jai Singh
Have you ever spent time on certain websites for the Sikh ‘Yoofs’ who follow a certain fundamentalist jatha? They have the exact same mentality that you just describe.
Miss Kohistani
I suppose surnames ending with -ani is common among Hindu/Muslim Sindhis. I guess some Pathans and Iranians also exhibit it. Does it have any meaning(of, from etc..)?
Punjabi Boy,
No, the only Sikh website I visit (and participate in) with any regularity is Sikhnet.com. You get the occasional conservative-type there (they seem to be either very young or based in India, or very recent immigrants to the West from Punjab), but most people on the Discussion Forum there are pretty moderate and very nice individuals.
As far as I’m concerned, the fundamentalist types you’ve mentioned are misguided and don’t have a clue about the basic tenets of the faith, or the history of Sikhs over the past 500 years (not in the real sense, anyway). That’s blindingly obvious even to me, despite the fact that I’m a pretty liberal and Westernised guy myself. I think that people who get hung up on dogmatic and bureaucratic perspectives of their religion — whether they’re Sikh, Muslim, or anything else — end up missing the point and forget (or ignore) the spirituality aspect of it all.
I’m probably stating the obvious, but it’s more to do with how “good-hearted” you basically are — your lack of arrogance and your goodwill towards your fellow man/woman — rather than ritualistic aspects. For example, personally I’d rather be with a girl who was “naughty but nice” than with someone who was very “moral” on the outside (in the traditional Indian sense) but was also egotistical, judgemental, intolerant, devious, selfish etc. You get the general idea.
This follows through into beauty contestants, models etc (whether we’re referring to Sarah Mendly, Miss Kohistani, or anyone else, including Indians). Wearing skimpy or fashionable clothes (in the Western sense — you know what I mean) doesn’t necessarily mean the woman is a “bad” or “immoral” person. Morality is more about how you treat other people, not about the kind of clothes you wear. It’s a lack of understanding of this simple, basic truth, and a dogmatic adherence to obsolete, irrational and misogynistic viewpoints regarding the behaviour and dress of women, that causes so many problems — both within South Asian society and, of course, within the Islamic world these days too.
(Rant finished laughing).
Jai Singh
I’m with you on that – but those crazy fundamentalists who curse you if you dont follow their maryada and spend their time on message boards cussing other Sikhs exist – and they are fruitcakes and failures, most of them – nasty hearted people.
That’s blindingly obvious even to me, despite the fact that I’m a pretty liberal and Westernised guy myself.
despite or because of …? Good to see that the words ‘liberal’ and ‘Westernized’ are devoid of ‘I’.
Who would of believed it ? Miss World as a Vehicle for Female empowerment !
1970 – Demonstrators shouting “Women’s liberation!” hurled stink bombs, smoke bombs and leaflets onto the stage, forcing comedian Bob Hope to retreat. Before the contest, a bomb exploded under a broadcasting van outside the theatre in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent the BBC from televising the contest. Young militants also protested against the entry of two girls from South Africa, one black and one white, saying it “would propagate the policy of apartheid.”
Miss World seems so nice now that we’ll got sex screaming from every newstand (moi reactionary ?well I am your Uncleji )
Incidently:
1962 – Miss Holland, Catharina Lodders, after winning the Miss World title: “I don’t think I’m the most beautiful girl in the world…I am the most beautiful girl here.”
1982 – Bermudian beauty queen Heather Ross was charged with illegally importing cocaine valued at $240,000 into Britain. She was arrested at London’s Heathrow Airport after stopping off a plane from Amsterdam, nine days after the Miss World contest in which she was unplaced.
1968 – Miss Philippines, Cecilia Amabuyok, a novice from a convent: “Now everyone will know that nuns can be beautiful and nice, too.”
1978 – Miss Tunisia, Malek Namlaghi, refused to pose for publicity pictures without her yashmak (veil), asserting, “I’m not here for sex – only beauty.” After contest organizer Julia Morley disqualified her, Malek changed her mind, removed the veil and was allowed to compete.
Punjabi Boy,
I’m presuming you’re talking about the whole mona/keshdhari thing…wink
I do know what you mean — along with certain excessively-conservative ideas about female dress & behaviour — but as far as I’m concerned, such people are basing their attitudes more on Indian/South Asian “culture” or “Punjabiyat”, rather than Sikhism itself (despite what they may think). People often can’t differentiate between religion and culture. Again, another major cause of problems.
Also, Indian society has been very heavily influenced by centuries of Turkic-Mughal rule, so in many aspects of life, people’s attitudes are actually a result of the Middle Eastern/conservative Islamic cultural heritage of India, rather than anything to do with their own religion. Whether they realise this or not. (My apologies for being politically-incorrect to any Muslims reading this, no offence is deliberately intended).
With regards to the fundies and fruitcakes you’ve mentioned — Yes, I know what you mean, you do get a handful of them on Sikhnet too although most other people there usually put them in their place. I think it’s a combination of the aforementioned “culture” and their frustration at seeing people perhaps moving away from traditional interpretations of the religion and how it’s practiced, which they regard as being a result of people wanting an “easier” life. The problem is, there’s no point banging on about surface issues like physical dress and appearance, ritualistic matters etc, if you forget that it’s fundamentally more important to also focus on the humanitarian core of the faith too. Even more so if one’s resentment and frustration at other people’s alleged “apostasy” is at the expense of your own mental, emotional, and spiritual wellbeing and clarity.
What’s happening in the Islamic world is an extrapolated version of this. Luckily there is no concept of Shariah Law in Sikhism (except for the Rehat Maryada, but even then many people say that’s only applicable to baptised Sikhs), and of course there are some fundamental differences between the Quran and the SGGS regarding their contents and the methods by which the two faiths attempt to inculcate/encourage spirituality in their respective adherents. And, of course, it’s also much, much harder for misguided people to find appropriate verses in the SGGS to either condone unwarranted aggression or the mistreatment of women.
Determined individuals can always find loopholes, of course, especially if they view Indian culture as being practically sacred and their primary yardstick for behaviour (applies to many Hindus as well as Sikhs). Remember how much hassle there was back in India when it hosted the Miss World contest there a few years ago — all those protests. Plus of course the on-going Valentine’s Day protests in various Indian cities.
Both, probably.
Not sure what you mean here….
Jai
Great point. It applies to followers of all religions.
Half the time, people are not aware of the spiritual aspect of their faiths. They get stuck on names, clothes, and other physical expressions though. Ignoring or forgetting can happen only if the prerequisite of understanding exists.for many faith is synonymous with regression. It is easy for them to ignore this aspect, just like it is for fundamentalists too.
Sumita
“people who get hung up on dogmatic and bureaucratic perspectives of their religion”
I don’t like them either, on the other hand I not over fond of the way that people seem to have adopted the salad bar attuide to religion (or pic and mix for our British viewers) mixing beliefs in to fit it with a permissive lifestyle.
Sikhi/ism is a both a spiritual and ethical system in which certian things are wrong and right and the whole point is to govern your behaviour.
That even includes cuddly and fuffly religions like Tibetian Buddhism which is to quote “is not a values-free system oriented around smiles and a warm heart. It is a religion with tough ethical underpinnings that sometimes get lost in translation.”
Uncleji in jophurs backflips off high horse.
I’ll rather be with Auntji who’s “nice but naughty” Uncleji leers unpleasantly.
You’ll find that those were mostly feminists ladies
Not even that – its deeper than that – they even cuss other keshdaris who dont follow their version of maryada – all these little silly laws and stuff – people having nervous breakdowns and high blood pressure over tiny irrelevant stuff.
Anyway, how did this thread go off topic when we should be talking about serious things like Muslim babes?
No, the feminist ladies were the ones protesting against the Miss World contest. The people rampaging around about Valentine’s Day were/are members of right-wing Hindu groups like the Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sena. I believe they went around colouring would-be suitors’ faces black, smashing up McDonalds which had Valentine’s Day themes, stealing Valentine’s Day cards from shops and burning them in public bonfires, and so on.
I think you mentioned how some Sikhs also try to control each other’s behaviour in the same manner as often happens in the global Islamic community, including the “unlawful” accusation against Miss Nottingham Sarah Mendly, and the conversation basically snowballed from there 😉
Having looked at that pic again, I bet Sarah got hit on constantly by randy desis during her time at De Montford — you know what Asian guys are like, especially when they’re younger and at college. Okay, afterwards too. At least until they’re married. Okay, after marriage too. Dirty dawgs.
Anyway, I think Sarah and Hammasa Kohistani have got a lot of guts taking part in the contest, considering the upswing in Islamist fundamentalism here in the UK and worldwide too. It’ll be interesting to see how the fundies here and overseas react when we get closer to the Miss World contest.
I wonder if there’s going to be a Muslim Miss America ? Any volunteers, anyone ?
God, OBL would have a stroke, wouldn’t he…;)
Yeah, punjabi boy back to the topic on hand. Hammasa and Sarah urf Miss Maya and Miss Madhubala rightfully belong to Bollywood . I hope shirt-challenged and lecherous uncleji Salman Khan is not reading this blog and getting ideas. Otherwise, we will have to endure one more skin flick with his smoothness and Hammasa/Sarah.
Jai Singh
How do you know Sarah Mendly was at De Montfort and hung out with Indian girls?
She was interviewed in the Daily Mail last Friday. Here’s a quote (from page 49, journalist: Helen Weathers):
“When I was at De Montford University in Leicester, there were many Asian Muslims who were reluctant even to socialise with people from different cultures and faiths. They used to look shocked when I told them I shared a flat with a Sikh and a Hindu.
To me, you have to understand and accept another culture if you are to be tolerant of them. Mixing with other cultures hasn’t made me any less of a Muslim.”
Jai Singh
Thats an interesting quote – doesnt surprise me though.
But I have noticed that Punjabi Boys these days keeping it real and have a really sweet relationship with Persian and Arab girls in England
The one in the middle is so sweet as mango. Her name is Lego – Persian/Arab apparently.
Legha, not “Lego” ! laughing I’m, er, familiar with her work wink.
Yeah the 3 ladies have done quite well for themselves. It’s interesting how only one of them is technically South Asian, I’d thought they all were until I saw them interviewed a little while ago.
Good to see that they’ve managed to get quite a high profile for themselves without any Deeyah-style harassment. Especially when you see their videos and consider the lyrics of that irritatingly catchy first single they put out.
I think they need to work a little on their songwriting abilities — the lyrics, not the music — but they are actually very good singers.
Jai Singh
What the hell were you doing reading the Daily Mail though?
Berry phunny…..Actually one of my family members reads it out of force of habit, and I ended up browsing through it. It can be quite right-wing at times, though.
Back to the original topic: Apparently there were 4 Muslim finalists out of a total of 40 contestants for this year’s Miss England contest. This article is quite good, and also includes further quotable quotes from some irate imans:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1761080,00.html