As I’ve watched the news over the past week I’ve started to consider if I should purchase a gun. I hate guns. I’ve only held one once. I have had one too many dreams where I was not only shot, but mutilated by gunfire. I’ve convinced myself that I must have died from a GSW in my past life and so I’ve wanted nothing to do with them. Indian families don’t really own guns. Am I wrong? Maybe I am just sheltered but I just don’t know any Indian families that own guns. Most of my first generation relatives have never even mentioned gun ownership. In India my family didn’t own a gun…well except for an air gun which they used to shoot geckos off the wall. I could imagine that South Asian hoteliers, convenience store owners, and wannabe thugs are probably packing, but outside of that I’d be surprised. How many South Asians do you know that either hunt or are members of the NRA? Not many I’ll bet. Recently I tried to talk my younger brother into buying a weapon. In the state in which he resides you aren’t a man without a piece. People wear them in plain sight on their waist he tells me. Two weeks ago a man in a pick-up truck pulled up beside him as he walked along the road and asked if he was packing. “No,” my brother replied. “You should be,” advised the man. It isn’t only bears and wolves but some crazies (everyone tells him so) where my brother lives that makes a gun a good idea.
So why aren’t brown folk strapped? Part of it must be that many South Asian immigrants (and even those born here) don’t understand the technical details of the U.S. Constitution and the 2nd Amendment. They didn’t need a gun in India so why would they here? Why does it seem like we have a “duty” to carry guns in America?
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [Link]
The founding fathers in their infinite wisdom and fresh from the Revolutionary War, wanted to make sure that the populace had armed state militias that could rise up against the federal government if it made a move toward autocracy. The phrase “well regulated Militia” however, was a loophole as wide as a football field and has led to the largest rate of gun violence in the world (guns do kill people). The founding fathers also worked in another rule into the Constitution that also has bearing on this past week’s events in New Orleans. Many people don’t know that the U.S. military is forbidden by the Constitution from acting (using their guns) within the borders of the United States. A friend of mine who spent 8 years in the U.S. Army (and who was born and lived in India until she was twelve) asked me earlier this week why the military didn’t just take over down there. I explained to her about habeas corpus (which is incidentally my favorite Latin phrase).
The right of habeas corpus has long been celebrated as the most efficient safeguard of the liberty of the subject.
Let’s go to Article 1 section 9 of the Constitution:
“The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.”Habeas corpus is a concept of law, in which a person may not be held by the government without a valid reason for being held. A writ of habeas corpus can be issued by a court upon a government agency (such as a police force or the military). Such a writ compels the agency to produce the individual to the court, and to convince the court that the person is being reasonably held. The suspension of habeas corpus allows an agency to hold a person without a charge. Suspension of habeas corpus is often equated with martial law.
Because of this connection of the two concepts, it is often argued that only Congress can declare martial law, because Congress alone is granted the power to suspend the writ. The President, however, is commander-in-chief of the military, and it has been argued that the President can take it upon himself to declare martial law. In these times, Congress may decide not to act, effectively accepting martial law by failing to stop it; Congress may agree to the declaration, putting the official stamp of approval on the declaration; or it can reject the President’s imposition of martial law, which could set up a power struggle between the Congress and the Executive that only the Judiciary would be able to resolve.
<
p>In the United States, there is precedent for martial law. Several times in the course of our history, martial law of varying degrees has been declared. The most obvious and often-cited example was when President Lincoln declared martial law during the Civil War. This instance provides us with most of the rules for martial law that we would use today, should the need arise.
Later on the Constitution was followed up with the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878:
The Posse Comitatus Act is a federal law of the United States (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed in 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, and was intended to prohibit Federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states. It generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The original act only referred to the Army, but the Air Force was added in 1956 and the Navy and Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. This law is mentioned whenever it appears that the Department of Defense is interfering in domestic disturbances.
See, the only way the military can take over within U.S. borders is if the President suspends habeas corpus in an extreme circumstance (see Star Wars Episode II for an example) and Congress doesn’t overrule him. He has not done this yet in New Orleans. If he did then the Federal government would own the city and all its problems, the same way in which we own Baghdad. That would be a “quagmire.” It would also increase the chances of a Kent State style incident. That is just part of the reason why the military seems to be more effective in Iraq and Sri Lanka than in New Orleans. Likewise, the National Guard is under the command of a state’s governor. A governor can do the equivalent of suspending habeas corpus (called “a state of public health emergency” in Louisiana) in order to declare martial law and isn’t bound by the Posse Comitatus Act because the guard is a “well-regulated militia.” Blanco however has not done so either. If she did, she’d own the problem (i.e. poor and sick black folk). This is what has led to the slow response and general lack of command and control. New Orleans police were asking the National Guard for orders of what to do. In reality however the local police should be in charge of the National Guard and should be ordering them. There is now a John Wayne-looking three star general named Honore in New Orleans calling the shots without the “real” authority or resources to do so. Most importantly he lacks proper knowledge of the city that only the civilian leadership there could provide. It’s okay by me if he does his thing as long as people get help. Natural leaders rise where they are needed. By my understanding neither the President nor the governor has constitutionally charged his actions though. That’s probably how they want it. Nobody wants to be caught holding the bag. I am not advocating the suspension of habeas corpus, just explaining the legalities.
This brings me back to the gun. In the breakdown of society it is unfortunately the gun that rules. The Constitution is really a beautiful thing. I abhor strict constructionists but I see why they love this document the way it is. The problem is that nobody understands the document except for Alberto Gonzales and John Roberts types. The public is ignorant of it and the government will try to skirt around it whenever they can get away with it. In the middle of a crisis like this, when nobody seems to have a clue, I now think that maybe I should own a gun. Some military and journalists have described the streets of New Orleans as equivalent to Mogadishu (as in Blackhawk Down). Not a single day of my life have I been afraid of a terrorist. I’ve openly held scorn for people whose attitudes hardened after 9/11 into “let’s get them before they get us.” Now however, I feel the stirrings of fear. I am afraid of my fellow man. I have have finally bowed to the fact that the law of the jungle will rule should a major disaster (on the scale of Katrina) strike my American city. LA is earthquake-prone and everyone here has automatic weapons even on a regular day. I need to prepare a disaster kit. I need to be ready. Armed with a gun and knowledge of the Constitution, maybe I’ll have a chance to protect myself long enough to take charge and provide leadership. I wonder though if I could just get by with the latter for a while longer.
Yes. The title of this post is from a Bon Jovi song. So what?
Yes, I read in NYT too that US military cannot (unless in special circumstances) take over a town during peace time. As you defined in your post.
Therefore, national guards are the local line of defense in absense of external threat. Only the military can provide support to them – the national guards.
abhi,
thanks for this provocative post.
however: with all respect my brother, what the hell are you talking about? i can’t find rhyme or reason to your post, and what i can find doesn’t compute.
first, you need to be extremely wary of the accounts from new orleans of “mogadishu-style” conditions. i am in touch with numerous new orleanians right now and getting lots of forwarded accounts from people working on the scene. nobody talking about no mogadishu. the reasons that people are going buck wild in new orleans are desperation, grinding poverty, drug addiction, and the disgustingly widespread availability of guns in this country in the first place. is your response to this to add to the paranoia and worsen the problem by getting a gun of your own? what do you intend to do with said gun once you own it?
new orleans is rich and rife right now with stories of people helping people. have you been hearing or reading these stories? why is your reaction to get a gun rather than to be one of those helpers?
you need to consider the extent of the culture of fear in this country, who propagates it and whose interests it serves. once you’ve conducted that analysis you can decide where you want your own actions to fit into the equation. though i’ve never met you and perhaps never will, i consider you a friend, and if you go ahead and buy a gun, i’ll still consider you a friend. but i’ll have a lot of trouble understanding your motives. perhaps you can convince me otherwise but it will be a tough sell.
as for your broader analysis of military options and the u.s. constitution, i don’t think this is the point. just because the military can’t shoot its guns in u.s. territory doesn’t mean it can’t help in a crisis. people aren’t asking for the military to come in and shoot mofos. people are asking for the military with its incomparable logistical might and ability and resources to apply those resources to moving mofos to safety. not this minimal too little too late bullshit of taking people from one windowless stadium to another, where they can continue to suffer in indignity far from the public eye, nicely tucked away to spare us from confronting our shame, but to do such things as build some goddamn trailer camps where folks can live (not vegetate) for several months. i spent the last three weeks driving around the deep south and you can’t go five miles without running into a lot with trailers for sale. get military trucks or C-130s or whatever to move these trailers, or the materials to build new ones, into places in louisiana, mississippi and alabama where these human beings can live. what is happening right now is an extraordinary display of indignities inflicted on the poorest and weakest. to correct this takes resources; the military have those resources. that’s all we’re asking.
as for your comment on general honore not having the local knowledge — the brother is FROM new orleans (or its whereabouts). that sounds like local knowledge to me. he’s the only cat that mayor nagin has praise for. he’s also going around reminding the soldiers back from iraq that they are NOT in a war zone and that their guns need to be pointed to the ground. sounds to me that he’s doing things right. his arrival with his troops is the first positive news the city has had.
and your brother who lives in a place where you have to be strapped: what??? maybe he’s in some rural texas county where this is the case, but again, i spend a lot of time in the deep south and i never see any guns. surely folks are wearing concealed weapons, but nothing like the “plain sight” you are talking about.
abhi, it’s fun to speculate about guns and all but we need to keep our eyes on the prize right now, on what is really going on here. i’ve never held a gun myself and i’d like to learn to shoot, just to get a sense of it; my girlfriend grew up among hunters and she’s a good shot. but that’s neither here nor there. on a serious level, you, we, need to make our own best determination as to what is going on in this country, what it is that katrina has revealed, and how we can apply our efforts to make things better now and in the future. i look at the scenes from new orleans and i see poverty, and i see the chickens of horribly misplaced national economic priorities coming home to roost. to me, that says, we need to do something about poverty, and about national economic priorities. guns are not the point.
peace siddhartha
I have total of 10 years in different towns in Texas (including your town, Houston) and Louisiana – I never seen anyone packing “visibly”. Some of them shown the meat – but hidden.
Guy, this is the time to help and heal.
Great comment, Siddhartha.
Maybe I need to put a general disclaimer that half my posts are tongue-in-cheek. I am not planning to buy a gun any time soon. 🙂
I think a comparison between the two is exaggerated as well but that was a quote.
But see that was my point. “People” can’t ask the military for anything. The President and Congress need to officially authorize them and they haven’t fully done so. At least not to the extent that is needed for proper C&C of the situation. It is not unfathomable that in the process of providing logistical support someone might get shot. Then what?
No, local knowledge is an understanding of where people are holed up and where the most help is needed. Honore doesn’t have that. Most of that info flows into local government which should then advise Honore on what to do. Even though the brother may be from Louisiana he still doesn’t possess the knowledge that local authorities that run the city from day to day should. That is why civilians are supposed to be in control. Watching the news its been obvious that half of Honore’s actions are based on intel from journalists.
I wasn’t joking about my brother’s situation. He lives in a mountain state where the threat of bear attack is real especially given that he needs to spend time in the woods for what he does. He does need to be loaded.
I want to learn how to handle and operate a gun for my own experience.
Guns ARE the point. What happened after 9/11? Much of the population over-reacted. They were frightened into believing that the biggest threat against their safety was terrorism. Look at the host of subsequent consequences. Now people are going to think like I was pretending to think in my post. I’ll bet you a year’s blog salary that gun purchases go through the roof in the next few months.
I heard the storm hit at the end of the month, disrupting paychecks that were due at the start of the month. As a result a lot of people (poor, old) who were living check-to-check had nothing to purchase gas, food etc. This, lack of liquidity, led to some desparate situations with people resorting to violence. Looks like things are settling down. BTW, Ray Nagin the mayor seems to think “John Wayne” type Honore was the sole bright spot of federal assistance.
to me, that says, we need to do something about poverty, and about national economic priorities. guns are not the point.
in the words of someone who commented on a blog:
“yeah, you and what army?”
So do I. Reporters were also saying that there was a man (a civilian) in his late twenties or early thirties who single handedly took charge of the poor masses at the convention center. He was in charge is what they were saying. You got to give it up for those types.
The right to bear arms have made what america what it is today.imagine wimpy democrats telling the pioneers not to pack heat…lol….
fadereu, not sure i get your point. can you rephrase/explain?
abhi, i read you on the regular and i know you write a lot tongue in cheek, much of it very lucid and smart. but i juust didn’t get this post and i bet a lot of other regular readers didn’t either.
some context might help too. the point about your brother makes a lot more sense now that you tell us it’s about protection from bears and that he works in the woods. pretty different from the main topic at hand. no wonder kush and i didn’t get it.
but i still don’t get your main point. so the federal government needs to authorize deployment and hasn’t; however the national guard can be deployed by governors and has been. ok… and then what?
if what you are saying is that it’s deplorable that the federal government hasn’t planned or authorized the application of military resources to post-katrina relief, then we are in agreement.
as for honore, if your point is that someone from local govt should be in charge in new orleans, then i agree too. mayor nagin said that IF he (nagin) couldn’t be put in charge, then at least let honore be put in charge.
new orleans city government is what it is, but let’s not assign them the major part of the blame here. not sure if this is something you are doing in your post, i don’t think so but i’ve misinterpreted you several times already it seems.
i guess it boils down to — tongue no longer in cheek now — what is the analysis you are making? what is the point you are trying to get us to think about?
peace siddhartha
Indian families donÂ’t really own guns. Am I wrong? Maybe I am just sheltered but I just donÂ’t know any Indian families that own guns.
Abhi, I am curious as to where did you get this from ?In my extended family in India almost everybody is a hunter (even though hunting has been officially banned in India since the early 80’s as I understand). Almost everybody has multiple guns in India. The ones in the US (first generation) are also hunting fans. I would imagine my family is not atypical for a North Indian family, so I am sure that a lot of Indian families own guns. Shikaar is extremely popular in India. I have heard countless stories of growing up in India with family (male members only) shikaar excursions.
The most non gun owners in my family are the 2nd generationers in the US. This probably has something to do with the liberal persuasion of most American Browns.
My main point is that the gun and the right to bear arms led to the laws, both the Constitution and in the Posse Comitatus Act, that have direct bearing in New Orleans right now. It is the underlying right that in my opinion is at play in the pathetic response to this crisis.
I am also foreshadowing the fact that you will hear a lot of what I have written in this post in the coming weeks. After 9/11 civil liberties were curbed because an erosion of civil liberties was deemed acceptable in order to combat the great threat of terrorism. Similarly I will bet that politicians will cite Posse Comitatus as an excuse of why they didn’t react in time. I wouldn’t be surprised if Congress calls for a softening of Posse Comitatus which would cede power to the Executive branch.
That is exactly what I am saying but I wanted to back it up by explaining the legal limbo they are using to cover their asses.
Not at all. The government was washed away. My point was not to blame them but to explain what led to the limbo that has resulted in what we now see.
In this I agree I should have been more clear. There were two main points to this post. First I wanted people to understand the role of the gun in our society. Second I wanted to show that the system CLEARLY failed. But…I am worried that in order to fix it, instead of owning up to their mistkes the Executive branch will use this as an excuse to grab power from the Legeslative branch while at the same time denying responsibility because they lacked the power prior to Katrina.
Al, its purely personal experience of my Guju family. That is why I asked readers to correct in the post if my experience has been abnormal.
Gun ownership in india is an underground activity due to the perpetuation of colonial laws in milder forms (which were tightened in recent times due to terrorism). In reality, this only impacts the import of guns from abroad. There is a huge cottage industry for making ‘country’ guns and bombs that is used for gang rivalry and miscelleneous activities. Some people from armed services can (used to be able) keep their weapons. Al Mujahid’s extended family seems to be beyond the ‘long hands of the law’ owning guns and going on shikaars. Former zamindaars, Thakurs etc. have ample ‘country’ guns. Gujju brahmins almost never have any guns 🙂
That would explain my family I guess 🙂
It probably depends on exactly what part of India readers’ families are originally from and the environment in which they lived. Someone whose parents are from urban Bangalore or Bombay will have little to do with the “shikaar” mindset. I’d also say your own experience is fairly typical for Gujaratis, with the possible exception of Gujjus with Rajput/Kshatriya lineage.
Yeah, must say there are no guns in my Hyderabadi family at all…no-one goes to play shikar among them…
abhi,
thanks for the clarifications. i get it now. interesting points… i don’t think i share your sense of what will come next… but let me mull it over now that i know what to mull over.
peace siddhartha
Guys,
You know why violence happened in NÂ’Awlins in the first place Â…Â…large percentage of people had lost everything, were hungry, and were dying. The desperation brought out the worst. You want to discuss the loopholes in why the only superpower in the world failed in his own backyard, letÂ’s do that.
Over the years, I have lived in dozen cities in US of A, there is no town which as laid back, open, and has the heart of gold as New Orleans, “the big easy”.
Is Café Du Monde open?
re: new orleans, think there are a variety of intersecting issues here, ie; multiple necessary conditions going on. 30 million people were homeless or stranded in bangladesh last year. i suspect multiple issues intersect here (poverty, lack of social capital, lack of individual learned skills, selection bias for who remained). anyway, good luck to everyone.
I think the NRA Communications Director Andrew Arulanandam is of Sri Lankan origin.
On a somewhat humorous note, Sigmund Freud made this comment on Hoplophobia “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.”
In all the coverage of Katrina, the violence takes center-stage. But, Katrina hit Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, and Florida. There was destruction far and wide, looting took place in several areas, but New Orleans descended into violence. Why?
A bigot would say, “Easy – New Orleans is over 60% black, and since they are prone to violence and no cops were around, they just went wild.” Of course, this argument is shot down when you look at the inconvenient detail that the majority of blacks in NO are not shooting at paramedics and rescue helicopters. Plus, Mississippi and Alabama have substantial black populations, and there has been no violence.
Could the violence be due to America’s love of guns. Well, Mississippi and Alabama have plenty of gunowners, but there was no violence. Louisiana has plenty of gunowners, but there was little or no violence outside of New Orleans.
The problem lies in the poor condition of New Orleans and Louisiana politics. The city and state have almost Indian-level style of corruption. Now, people are willing to excuse corruption if they see the results and city services, like in Chicago.
But New Orleans has higher percentages of people living in poverty, and a higher crime rate than most American cities. Most city services did not deliver, even before Katrina. The schools do not work, and so you have a population of people that cannot take care of themselves. When they city and state agencies they depended on got washed away, they were vulnerable to New Orleans’ unchecked criminal element.
Had one or two looters been shot on the first day, gangs would have known that a price would be paid for such behavior.
i think KXB hit the nail on the head. it is too easy to point to one salient variable (poverty, the gov. and so forth). the heart of darkness behavior comes out of a particular subset which has attained critical mass in the public housing projects throughout the united states. if you have 100 people and 1 of them is a sociopath, there is only so much damage they can do. but if you have 100 people and 10 are sociopaths, they can start a really destructive (from the group angle) spiral of behaviors.
poverty, endemic gov. corruption, federal tardiness in providing aid, resources diverted to iraq, etc. all contribute. but i think the critical mass of sociopaths is the spark that started this flame. in some ways the violent and anarchic behavior is probably simply a ramping up with what normal people in the projects have to deal with day in and day out. without the light hand of the law the hobbsian conditions have been exacerbated and expanded in scope.
that’s my take.
people around here (liberal white oregon, not conservative redneck oregon, where i lived for 6 years) are asking about guns too. will the “coming anarchy” spread here? “not yet” i say :0)
Clarification: I do understand that my extended family in India is in a way atypical (they are muslims). However from what I have personally seen and heard, shikaar (hunting) is enjoyed equally by Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus. As hunting is now prohibited, people go to hunt in large private farms. Apart from the stories I have heard, I also had the misfortune of attending one such event briefly and it was held in the private farm and (surrouding jungle) of a large Sikh landlord on the Western UP/Eastern Punjab border. There were atleast 2 other Hindu businessmen/landlords present in that event and one of them claimed to be from a family which was very politically connected. Then there were people from my Muslim family and the Sikh landowner who was hosting the ‘event’. On finding out the illegality of the ‘event’, I did not partake in the shikaar. I did enjoy the kebabs and the sharab (alcohol).
Note : I am not against hunting per se. I have nothing against the hunters in the US. However I feel strongly about not breaking the law unless you have a very good reason. What was shocking to me was the cavalier attitude of the participants (mostly Indian citizens). They nonchalantly dismissed by ‘petty’ concerns about the illegality of the activity.
You dont need a New Orleans type situtation to require a gun. Unless you live in a cement jungle like Manhattan, it makes sense to keep a gun handy. I do understand that its better for all of us if guns were banned or atleast their availability made extremely difficult or need based. Unless the Government is willing to do that, I see no logic in unilaterally disarming myself. If a politican today advocates for the abrogation of the 2nd Amendment and a ban on all guns, I would support such a move. But as long as no such move is tabled and every 2 cent petty burglar/thug has easy access to guns, I think it makes sense to keep a gun handy. Of course there are certain risks involved in keeping a gun at home and in a lot of situations the risks (children shooting each other ,you sheeting yourself/others, fatally shooting a trespasser, use of lethal force in non lethal situations and what not) probably outweigh the potential benefit (preventing a burglary, new orleans type situtation, break ins etc). However the riks can be minimized with proper storage, target practice, gun handling courses etc.,). The biggest challenge of course is to control your nerves when such a situation arises and not get trigger happy and only use the gun to combat lethal force as a last resort and when you cant retreat anymore.
Vikram, I couldn’t find a bio for this man anywhere online. Do you have a link?
Sri Lankans may slightly favor gun ownership than other desis. (cringe) My grandfather had a rifle, which was kept ‘hidden’ behind an armoire, but it looked like something out of a cowboy movie…so frikkin ancient. Sri Lanka used to have srict licensing laws about owning a gun. Now, I’m not sure if they’re even legal for civilians.
Certainly Sri Lankans of my generation are more casual and slap-happy about weaponry than preceeding generations. But it comes from a deep-seated fatalism about the future (suicide rates are sky high) than from any idea of personal protection. Growing up amid reports of landmine types, shrapnel wounds, the technicalities of exposives and differences between AK-47, UZIs, T-56s, etc. will do that to you.
“people kill people”… how cute to have the luxury to think that way.
Really? Where is this section? As a lawyer and army judge advocate I have never heard of it. The military has been used in many instances before the PCA was passed and since within our borders.
Yep, and maybe if you had read the whole post or bothered to click on any of the links then you’d see that I cited the exceptions and the reason behind them. I certainly don’t claim to know more law than a lawyer.
abhi, remember, put all pertinent data or links in the title!!! hell hath no fury like a blog-reader’s ADD scorned!
I read somwhere that permanent residents can’t buy guns.. only citizens can.
See, the only way the military can take over within U.S. borders is if the President suspends habeas corpus in an extreme circumstance (see Star Wars Episode II for an example) and Congress doesnÂ’t overrule him
They suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. Also habeas corpus is effectively suspended for foreign citizens under Patriot 1 and 2.
cicatrix:
My asumption was based on his last name. I’m not 100% sure if he is from Sri Lanka or born here in the US. However, I did find this page which has a post from an Andrew Arulanandam that gives an email address and place of work as Washington DC. I don’t claim to be a Sherlock Holmes, but I daresay he is the same person. Looks like he went to school in Malaysia. I have a feeling it is the same person.
See, the only way the military can take over within U.S. borders is if the President suspends habeas corpus in an extreme circumstance
Abhi, I think you are confusing habeas corpus with martial law. For example, you cant have martial law without suspension of habeas corpus, but you can suspend habeus corpus at varying degrees without invoking martial law.
habeus* = habeas.
Not consfusing it but perhaps I didn’t state it clearly like you have suggested. What I meant was that in order to declare Martial Law you have to first suspend habeas corpus.
I read somwhere that permanent residents can’t buy guns.. only citizens can.
From the ATF FAQ
Abhi, As Razib got ambushed by a few people on the other thread, I just want to make clear that I am not trying to prove you wrong. As a Lawyer, I am just adding my 2 cents on an area I happen to know a few things.
I am not too sure why you should allude to the religion of your family in India. If u meant that muslims in India are considered atypical then I should say you are greatly wronged.
I was only alluding to the fact that the Muslims are a numerical minority in India and what they do might be statistically not that significant.
I know Al. I knew you were a lawyer so I was just clarifying 🙂
Also I deleted the troll comment that you were responding to in the above comment.
more lawyers on threads! i’ll seem less like a hairsplitter!!!
I read somwhere that permanent residents can’t buy guns.. only citizens can.
Apparently, even terrorists can buy guns in this country.
If one is willing to break the law, you can pretty much buy anything:
Abhi,
What you do with a comment is your prerogative. But, that was no troll comment. Might have been a bit out of context. Nothing about Al’s mentioning that his family was atypical told me that he was talking in the statistical sense ( Not that I had not read the entire conversation in comments!). Thanks for the clarification Al.
you guys have been drinking the kool-aid in a big way. what are you talking about? what do you know about housing projects? what do you know about new orleans, mississippi, alabama? what do you know about the condition of disempowered urban black people in america?
you say, “the spark that started this flame.” what flame? you are starting from the assumption that there was some sort of massive urban crime wave post-katrina. well, take away the looting for food and basic necessities, and what do you have left? some looting for non-basics, and apparently some extortion, rapes and perhaps other assaults.
how is that different from the crime that goes on in any major american city on any given day? (or in suburbia i might add.)
how does it compare to the crime of leaving hundreds of thousands of people stranded and starving on rooftops, in hospitals without sanitation, etc etc, for five days?
how does it compare to the thousands of acts of kindness and solidarity that by all eyewitness, non-cable-news reports have been multiplying all over the affected areas — whether new orleans, ala., or miss. — from the moment the storm hit?
seriously — what on earth are you guys talking about?
no denying here that there was criminal behavior after the storm and at least several egregious incidents. but no denying either, please, that both the mayor and law enforcement have attributed this primarily to drug addiction, and that law enforcement confirms that the incidents have now decreased significantly now that the national guard etc have deployed — which they should have done from the beginning anyway.
so, please. you guys are getting dangerously close to blaming the victim. don’t believe the hype.
peace
My nominee for the drrtiest-sounding Latin phrase: ‘posse comitatus’ 😉
speak it Siddhartha! I really was wondering what these busta-ass babies are trying to say. Maybe I’m just high… Some cat is talking about his bro shooting grizzlies, some cat is trying to project as a lawyer…damn, this site is just kicks. My 2 cents: Remember when Ricardo Mayorga told Corey Spinks at the press conference before their welterweight bout that he was going to send him to heaven to meet his grandmother, just after Spinks said he was dedicating the fight to his recently departed grandma. That’s trash talk baby! The system works!
Wasn’t trying to make a personal attack. The Constitution itself doesn’t prohibit military operations within our borders save for quartering of troops. Legislation such as the PCA does limit its use in law enforcement matters and provides other rerstrictions such as intelligence gathering.
what do you know about new orleans, mississippi, alabama? what do you know about the condition of disempowered urban black people in america?
well, i don’t much, but i did have an ex-gf who worked for the red cross in louisiana for a year and i visited her and we regularly talked about the issues she had to deal with day to day (it was a 70 hour a week job). there was a qualitative difference in helping someone to get their affairs in order after their house/apt. burned down when they were, for example, college educated, vs. the semi-literates (which is relatively common in NO).
as for the rest, i don’t know what to say. you see this, and i see that. perhaps our eyes are differently made. no point in having a discussion because i don’t think we share enough references and perceptions.
I live in a pretty mixed neighborhood (using houses as a metaphor for the residents, it ranges from Victorian mansions to crack houses and everything in between.) Yes, I value the diversity of races, opinions, blah, blah, blah… but if the bad guys have sawed-off shotguns and other illegal weapons of singular destruction, I choose to defend myself by any means necessary (man, my cliches are in overdrive!) I don’t purport to use guns in an illegal way. If you choose to use them, learn how to appropriately and wisely. Hopefully background checks and the laws in place should serve to weed out most of the wackos whose brains just tell them to kill for any petty reason. The relatively sane gun laws in my state are one of the main reasons why I hesitate to even think about moving to some of my neighboring states. Growing up in a South Indian family I was never encouraged (or disccouraged for that matter) to own a gun. It never crossed our collective minds. The reality of the situation in inner cities and its day-to-day stresses that tip some over the edge is my reason for carrying (legally) and not hesitating to defend myself and those around me that choose to live in a respectful way. Yes, I am a Malayalee, I carry a gun, and I am a member of the NRA. I also like kir, showtunes, and nice shoes if that matters…;-) God, that was so cathartic.
Sid, I’m not sure that they are trying to blame the victim(s) at all, but rather people are shocked when it’s upfront and brutal. I’ve always had the belief (maybe perverse) that human beings are capable of anything, especially in these types of situation and so I’m never really surprised. But other’s aren’t, and so they don’t quite know how to react.
This is off topic, but given the high density of geeks who read this forum I’m going to comment on more than one Katrina-related post here to bring it to people’s attentions. (Apologies SMers). It seems that you can help fund efforts and possibly volunteer to help restore communications to the New Orleans/Biloxi area by helping out Part-15.org, an organization devoted to the unlicensed part of the radio spectrum. Here’s the Katrina Part-15 information.