May’s issue of the journal Tissue Engineering featured a report (paid subscription required) that could potentially change the lives of Hindus, Jains, and Vegetarians everywhere. The report titled, “Commentary: In Vitro-Cultured Meat Production,” by Edelman et. al. looks at artificially produced, real meat:
Most edible animal meat is made of skeletal muscle tissue. The idea that skeletal muscle tissue-engineering techniques could be applied to produce edible meat dates back at least 70 years, but has been seriously pursued by only three groups of researchers. Their efforts can be divided roughly into scaffold-based and self-organizing techniques.
In scaffold-based techniques, embryonic myoblasts or adult skeletal muscle satellite cells are proliferated, attached to a scaffold or carrier such as a collagen meshwork meshwork or microcarrier beads, and then perfused with a culture medium in a stationary or rotating bioreactor. By introducing a variety of environmental cues, these cells fuse into myotubes, which can then differentiate into myofibers. The resulting myofibers may then be harvested, cooked, and consumed as meat. van Eelen, van Kooten, and Westerhof hold a Dutch patent for this general approach to producing cultured meat. However, Catts and Zurr appear to have been the first to have actually produced meat by this method.
A scaffold-based technique may be appropriate for producing processed (ground, boneless) meats, such as hamburger or sausage. But it is not suitable for producing highly structured meats such as steaks. To produce these, one would need a more ambitious approach, creating structured muscle tissue as self-organizing constructs or proliferating existing muscle tissue in vitro.
Wicked! It’s like Franken-food. Oh come on. You guys are curious to see what it tastes like too. The Guardian has more:
According to researchers, meat grown in laboratories would be more environmentally friendly and could be tailored to be healthier than farm-reared meat by controlling its nutrient content and screening it for food-borne diseases.
Vegetarians might also be tempted because the cells needed to grow chunks of meat can be taken without harming the donor animal.
Experiments for NASA, the US space agency, have already shown that morsels of edible fish can be grown in petri dishes, though no one has yet eaten the food.
Mr Matheny [of the University of Maryland] and his colleagues have taken the prospect of “cultured meat” a step further by working out how to produce it on an industrial scale. They envisage muscle cells growing on huge sheets that would be regularly stretched to exercise the cells as they grow. Once enough cells had grown, they would be scraped off and shaped into processed meat products such as chicken nuggets.
Of course, the Vegetarian Society had to be spoiled-sports when asked to comment on the news:
“The Vegetarian Society is concerned that while this has the potential to decrease the number of meat-producing animals in factory farms, there are still a number of question marks regarding the origins of the cells and the method of harvesting.“It won’t appeal to someone who gave up meat because they think it’s morally wrong to eat flesh or someone who doesn’t want to eat anything unnatural,” Ms Bennett added.
“Personally I wouldn’t want to, but I suppose if they’re going to make chicken nuggets with it, then it’s probably not going to taste much different.”
I’m not sure where the compliment was. As a scientist you must know as well as I, as a scientist (a paleontologist), do that when a vast preponderance of evidence points towards a conclusion, even if more data is needed to perfect the theory, you must never make statements like “Its all a theory, no matter how much you swirl it around, you’ll just never really know…” Throwing your hands up in the air like that because you may not like the conclusion (if that is the case) isn’t what scientists do. That in fact is the sort of argument IDers make.
Actually I’m not a fan of ID,but thanks for the compliment: as a scientist I cannot discount any theory.
dumbest thing ever mooted on SM. 11 billion years ago i took a shit and the universe was born from that first brown cow-pie. just a theory….
I’m not sure what is in place to measure intelligence. Population spikes? Tools created? The evolution of hunting? These are all constructed baselines, created by each author and agreed upon by his/her peers.
also, i think it behooves you to actually investigate this research before you quickly dismiss it. abhi is correct that a whole host of vectors, of variable probability and plausibility, point in one direction. that is how a lot of science, especially historical science, works. even biology you can do in a laboratory is fraught with a lot of noise (“variables”). anyway, it is up to you to dismiss the data, but it behooves you to actually examine it before you dismiss its weight so breezily.
Intelligent Design? Humans were not Intelligently Designed!! Put a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area..
that’s not very bloody intelligent.
i think that was sarcasm on their part, abhi. 😉
How sure are you? Isn’t this more of a philosophical question? When have you heard of the term “flesh” not associated with a live animal? Is it really “flesh” if it was never alive?…Technically this material never came from a live vertebrate.
erm, fairly sure. what i’ve always been told is,you can’t have meat during lent. whether this pseudo-meat comes from a live or dead vertebrate, it’s still meat, therefore, not allowed. the point of fasting is sacrifice, not finding ways to get around the restrictions on what’s allowed in your tummy. 🙂
from wiki:
though…if i’m supposed to identify with suffering, maybe i SHOULD eat it, since it totally grosses me out. 😉
Definitely valid points made by A and Razib, and I am well aware of how a large puzzle of evidence points to one direction it is probably true. But you guys just made my point for me, locking yourselves into a theory, especially historical science theory.
I never dismissed anything. CTRL C, CRTL V my comments…where did I “dismiss” anything Razib? Honestly, I think you dismissed me. Yes yes, if my spaceship got too close to the sun, I can theorize my face will melt off with a great degree of certainty…Im relatively safe in knowing the universe did not came from Youranus. But the fact you are so certain. Hmm…I was just saying you have to accept uncertainty in the paleo world to be a good scientist. Thats all. I didn’t dismiss anything, quite the opposite.
A: No, I did not through my hands in the air and say “F it, we’ll never know so why bother…” (though we all now know Razib’s ass holds the answers to life’s most puzzling questions) I just like to keep an open mind to the historical sciences…who knows. Maybe humans became more intelligent because they shared data …Like today’s internet? And being the fittest and strongest by eating meat doesn’t necessarily translate into being the smartest, as some comments may lead into. I just believe eating meat wasn’t a major contributor, it was one of them perhaps, but not the biggest one. You just seem to charge forth with certainty about theories we can only support but never “prove.”
Well I don’t have the time to debate as work is calling…but since A and R are both “correct” per their vectors of data, I’ll resign and just ask for the keys to either of your deloreans for this weekend : I got some tech stocks to buy back in 1994.
You just seem to charge forth with certainty about theories we can only support but never “prove.”
i don’t hold to the cult of popper, but most scientists are careful to make a nod to “falsification” rather than “proof” if they are interested in these sort of things. you spent a lot of time saying little of anything from what i can gather. abhi presented a hypothesis, one i would judge of middle strength since the positive physiological-cognitive effects of meat are being verified in human beings today. you just did a rhetorical dance where you seemed to object to the words used.
Abhi, very interesting links about the impact of meat-eating on human evolution. Hadn’t heard about this before, and it seems like a plausible theory. That said, does it have any bearing on our actions today? Does vegetarianism today have bad effects on either the environment, individuals or animals?
Razib – checked out the GNXP post you linked to, as well as the Guardian article. Double super unconvincing, I must say. Feed somebody only limited carbs (I am assume malnourished Kenyan children did not start with a balanced diet), suddenly give them protein for a while, and wow, there’s a difference? You could’ve knocked me over with a sharpened stone tool! (I did a cursory Google search too for Lindsay Allen and didn’t see anything to sway me).
Full disclosure: I grew up vegetarian, ate meat for the last 8-9 years, and have become vegetarian in the past year for ethical reasons. Now the most outlandish thing I’ve ever eaten will always be frog legs – or mountain rabbit, as my Chinese waiter told me with a nudge and a wink to my friends. Thankfully, my biology education told me otherwise. And yes, they were real and they were spectacular.
Of course, there is this clinching argument for giving up errmm… meat [nsfw].
And bong breaker, maybe you should get your friend this.
Just want to add to what MD said about hot dog analysis turning your stomach:
And if you ever read about or (god forbid) visit a hog farm or other factory farm, it will at the very least turn you off of non-free range or legitimately organic meat.
Here’s wikipedia on factory farms and hog lots for the hardier souls and here’s PETA for some undougtedly gory (if propagandistic video) (I haven’t watched it) and an article that offers statistics from some book I’ve never read. In the US, you’re also imbibing all kinds of antibiotics and hormones and the such that keep these sickly animals alive until they can be killed 🙂
Environmentalists also often argue that the amount of resources it takes to produce a pound of meat is exorbitant compared to the amount of resources it takes to produce similar amount of grain. I dug that link up quickly, so if someone can verify its credibility or offer something more credible, I’d appreciate it.
Bong Breaker-
you scare me, yaar! 😉 I can hardly eat my yogurt, reading your list of “delicacies” back there.
gag.
I never could understand this one.
Yoghurt: bacteria infested semi-digested milk
Honey: partially digested flower pollen vomited by bees
…are all right with people, but meat is not? However, even as a confirmed carnivore, I could never go through the phylogenetic eating list that BB and Cica have embarked upon 🙂
Are we doing an ID/Evolution thread here? Listen dudes — ID is not a ‘theory’. In science-ese theory does not mean speculation. So a scientist say that he has a theory is quite different from a kid from, say McKinsey, saying that he has one. For more on this, read the New Republic article here (free registration required).
Yeah, or bugmenot 🙂
Rahul, just to be clear, nothing I said has anything to do specifically with vegetarianism. I see myself becoming a vegetarian eventually. This isn’t a “whose better vegetarians or meat eaters” debate. This is a purely scientific debate. What all the links I listed are meant to show is that Homo sapiens are intelligent as a direct result of meat consumption in our ancestors. When food sources are plentiful, like they are in our society, even strict vegetarians don’t have to worry about a thing. It’s not an issue. They are able to take in more than enough calories. To answer your question, being a vegetarian has no bad effects on the environment or animals. Being a meat eater probably does. That is a totally separate argument though.
I’m getting hungry all over again. Cica I’ve never heard of culinary engineering or cooking things inside things. I eat, I don’t cook.
I never mentioned black pudding. It’s a northern speciality (i.e. Newcastle and thereabouts). Have you heard of it? It’s disgusting.
It’s a solid lump of congealed sheep’s blood. I don’t mind the fact it’s blood, it just tastes horrific. Down south, the cockney favourite is jellied eels, far nicer.
Oh and you might not be interested that I’ve jumped on the rickshaw and got started on me own blog. Hooray!
Why can’t science be applied to create more flavorful veggie food? Juicy, flavorful, protein rich potatoes perhaps. Regarding vedas etc. I think vedic hinduism was an old school religion with sacrifices, meat eating and soma drinking. As time progressed, perhaps with plentiful veggie foods along the Indus and gangetic plains and definitely due to the influence of Buddism and Jainism, Ahimsa became a central feature of Hinduism. As for special place of cows in rituals and hinduism it seems to be a brahmin system of taxation invented to sustain themselves. A non-religious explanation is that cows are like pets for Hindus. Cicatrix and Bong breaker are sick, sick, sick!! somebody please get these guys a separate room where they discuss in graphic detail how to pick clean animals 😉
decides to skip lunch
bb,
we await the rhino’s ejaculations with bated breath. why october 2nd? auspicious day?
peace
gag.
and people voluntarily eat this WHY?
Cheers illhindu. Not an auspicious day as such, I’ll just have got finals out of the way, have my fail firmly in hand and be ready to work on the blog 😉
Peas.
Thanks, Abhi. It wasn’t my intention to start a debate, or oh-so-subtly suggest the superior morality of vegetarianism. I was only asking a question, which, I am glad, didn’t start a flame war.
Bong Breaker, I’ve heard of black pudding, yes. Never had it, but I’m trying to remember if I’ve had blood sausage..which I suppose would be close. Drawing a blank.
I might have had it at one of those newfangled places that tout something weird or over the top as an ingredient, but once you order the dish, you see there’s barely any of it, and what is there is smothered in some sauce and combined with something else, so you can’t really taste it. Just adds a frisson of excitement for people who find garlic in mashed potatoes daring.
Jellied eels? eh, pass 😉
I’ve had eel, and it’s really good, but most British dishes aren’t for me. Too bland or something . (Unless I’m IN Britain in which case I’ll chow down with the best of you!)
wait..what am I saying? The British created that nectar of the gods – Marmite!
Also love Steak and Kidney pies. Deep fried Mars bars though, are another matter.
ps – congrats on the blog!
Why thank you cicatrix. Not entirely sure I deserve congratulations for typing a few words, but most kind of you nonetheless! That (temporary) pic that greets you is one I took on your little island.
I can’t believe you’ve heard of deep-fried Mars bars. That is one thing I won’t touch. Wow, you’ve found my Achilles tastebud. It is surely the most revolting idea ever conceived. I can’t stand Mars bars normally, leave aside covered in batter. Now I know how DesiDancer and co felt when we were talking. I apologise!
Vegan diet may reverse cancer By Ainsley Newson SWITCHING to a vegan diet could stop or even reverse the progression of prostate cancer, a study has found.
Research by a team from the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Centre in New York and the University of California in San Fransisco involved 93 volunteers. It will be published in next monthÂ’s issue of the Journal of Urology.
Levels of a key biological marker for prostate tumours fell significantly when patients adopted a vegan diet — eating mainly fruits, vegetables, and whole grains, supplemented by extra soy, vitamins and minerals. They also took up moderate exercise, weekly yoga and meditation, and attended a dedicated support group.
sorry, the above blurb was from the times online.
personally, i can’t conceive of a life without cheese, but if it works… 🙂
As far as I know, kshatriyas (for instance) have always been non-vegetarians. I remember reading in (Rajagopalachari’s version of) the Ramayana that Rama, being a kshatriya, ate meat too.
But definitely, vegetarianism is encouraged for the spiritually inclined.
Whoa!! And I thought eating a rat was bad!!
Anna says:
I would love to help clean-up, but between the people who have commented/posted and their friends, I am sure we can get someone to feast on puke.:). After all I believe some ppl here don’t want anything wasted. :). I kid, I kid.
What a can of worms that opened. Not only did they open, they ate it too. Anyways, I bow before you Bong Breaker and cicatrix. I know when I have been licked. :).
It isn’t?! Damn! I have to go confess.
We ADORE St John — the wiggly bits are great when they are prepared properly. And it is reasonably good value for money, at least by London standards
“MoorNam
Bet none of you have eaten dog-meat. It’s called kheema in India – tastes like chicken.
M. Nam”
Bet you have never eaten it either.. it tastes far from chicken.. more like a tough bad smelling version of beef. I prefer the dishes made of dog in the North of Asia as opposed to the South East Asian. To tough down there..