Politicians are full of …

It’s a very common observation to remark that politicians are full of fecal matter[NSFW], but usually this is a metaphorical remark about their character and moral worth. Very little attention has been paid by people to literal politician droppings … until now. It turns out there is no topic beneath the attention of the Indian bureaucrat: squat.JPG

Village council candidates in India should be allowed to stand for election only if they have a toilet at home, the rural development minister says. He said too many elected members “do not have toilet facilities in their own houses and defecate in the open”. Mr Singh said this activity was the main cause of the high incidence of diarrhoea in rural areas. [BBC]
Nor (surprisingly) is this a new issue:
Some states have already made amendments in the Panchayati Raj Act, which deals with the election of village councils, to ensure that elected members have toilet facilities in their households. The rural development minister suggested all chief ministers make similar provisions. [BBC]
Actually, concern with morning stool has long been a staple of desi culture. Mahatma Gandhi’s daily greeting to women was:
“Have you had a good bowel movement this morning, sisters?” [cite]
Indeed, one critic pointed out that
… Gandhi seems to have written less about home rule for India than he did about enemas, and excrement, and latrine cleaning [cite]
It seems the minister is merely following a path made by giants …

89 thoughts on “Politicians are full of …

  1. White Trash, I for one am pleased you’ve taken such an interest in India, but just realise that a year in a village doesn’t teach you about India as a whole nor does it tell you what ‘being Indian’ is. It’s a very complex phenomenon, and I don’t know I’ve ever heard a satisfactory definition.

    What may have pissed some people off here, and me too, is that we’ve heard many a person sermonise about India. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. When Gandhi returned from South Africa, he travelled around huge amounts of India to try and find out what being Indian was about. After all that, he still came to a conclusion that I disagree with and so did many at the time. It’s somewhat similar to how you view the country and it’s an attitude I’ve heard many times before.

    My Dad’s English and growing up in New Delhi, many of our friends were English expats. They romanticised India endlessly and firmly believe that India is Mother Nature’s beguiling, spiritual, hedonistic utopia. However many young Indians and NRIs think that India is a bustling, cosmopolitan world economy and an up-and-coming force to be reckoned with.

    Both Indias exist – please understand we will take offence if a non-Indian tells us being Indian means. Mark Tully is the most Indian white person I have ever met, but he’s still got some zany views.

  2. Besides, my experience with you tall, dark and handsome desi men is that you are only interested in IT women or doctors.

    Way to marginalize. Didn’t they teach you about generalizations, on your field trip?

  3. Way to marginalize. Didn’t they teach you about generalizations, on your field trip?

    I admire white trash’s interest and experience in India but I think the same rule applies here as it does to other cultures: there are certain jokes and views on the inside which are valid, but from an outsider, are out of context. She may have been facetious but saying the above comment about guys only liking IT and Docs, but from where she stands, this is the equivalent of using the term “nigger” to a black person. They can use it bcuz they have a true, inner cultural connection. We cannot bcuz we don’t have that experience, so I use similar logic to white trash’s jokes here.

    please be aware that being Indian is more than just knowing Hindi, etc, knowing geography or ‘understanding our grandparent’s’ values, thinking etc. You have to live it and make choices within it to know what it’s like, and you have to live a lifestyle in which you live in a culture denominated by old world beliefs, yet you have to act out upon those in a different country, culture and system in which your elders don’t understand. And then you have to live in the culture in which you try to build a bridge between the old world and new world w/o compromising who you are. It’s easier for you, you live in a westernized nation, so your 1 yr in india isn’t the same life experience as 29+ living here and belonging there.

  4. White Trash, I respect your comments and I’m glad your experience in India was so broadening to you. I think the reason why your posts might be rubbing people the wrong way is because we resent the implication that as NRIs, we have become spoiled, stupid and removed from our “culture.” (I frankly don’t care how you choose to take a poo on a squat-toilet. Just please wash your hands. Thoroughly.) However, you have to understand that to us, white people like you seem a bit spoiled to us. After all, when we choose to visit India, we are going because our families, our flesh and blood, are there. We would visit them wherever they were and however much it cost to get there, and whatever sacrifices we have to make to get there. I don’t go to “discover myself” or “experience the world for myself,” although that does inevitably happen with any great travel experience. I am going because I had very real bonds with the people who live in those villages. So I respect your experiences and the knowledge of the rural culture that you were privileged and fortunate enough to partake in for one year, but please save your judgement.

    (On a different note, rural “culture” in India is hardly to be emulated. Poo-taking technique aside, many of the beliefs are oppressive and destructive, particularly to women.)

  5. And oh yeah! Find me a tall, dark handsome hottie who wants a tall, dark professional woman and I’ll eat my hat.

  6. Bonb Breaker said:

    Both Indias exist – please understand we will take offence if a non-Indian tells us being Indian means.

    Rupe said:

    However, you have to understand that to us, white people like you seem a bit spoiled to us.

    I don’t think we want to assume that White Trash is non-Indian. This is the internet, after all.

    Moreover, I don’t think we want to take offense, especially as (mostly) diasporic desis here. A white woman with the unlikely name of Marty Chen has spent decades in South Asia. I think she even grew up there, because her parents lived there at the time. Whenever she wants to tell me something about South Asia, I listen.

    Rupa’s right though, that essentialist comments about the “True India”, especially from somebody who doesn’t live there, really do rub NRI/ABCDs the wrong way. Heck, they rub me the wrong way comming from Indians.

    More broadly, essentializing is very dangerous. It’s one thing to talk descriptive statistics, it’s another thing to say that you’ve found the heart of the matter, especially based on a limited sample. I too have never heard of the practice of showering immediately after you shit, and I’ve heard a fair amount about life in very small town East Punjab.

    Let the ragging on desi men continue, unabated!

  7. actually, Ennis, she said so very clearly:

    And I think it’s because I’m “too Indian” for them – even though I’m white!
  8. I don’t think we want to assume that White Trash is non-Indian. This is the internet, after all.

    Well, she said she’s not Indian boss.

    I gave the example of Mark Tully in a similar vein to your Martha Chen example. Both non-Indians who are immeasurably more knowledgeable about India than I am. I don’t know much about Chen, but Tully has been the BBC’s voice of India for 30 years and, as the second link shows, Indians are not always in agreement with what he thinks.

  9. Changed my name to Dignitary as having people refer to me as White Trash does not befit a dignified lady like myself. Hee hee hee.

    Anyway, just to address a few points;

    1. I wonder how it is that my posts here have been construed as “critism” of Indian culture when a. I sought to point out how the article by Richard was incorrect and offensive and b. I sought to explain the reasons behind the appearant obsession with bowel movements and the like he attributes to Gandhi and Indians.

    Funny, somehow I thought I was being supportive of Indian culture. Foolish me.

    1. The one year stint in India was not meant to refer to myself. I’ve lived most of my adult life in India. I was suggesting that maybe if someone wants to really get to know India, that staying less than one year in one place would not really do the place justice.

    2. I know there are many different ways to go to the bathroom/toilet in India. I was just sharing with you all the rationale behind the way most people that I have lived with do their business there. If the facilites are well equipped with water then I personally find squat toilets and bathing after shitting to be the most hygenic.

    3. The comment about Punjabis not doing the above, yes, I have heard from other Indians (in India) that they do not. No more comments on that as I do not want to start a thing between Punjabi and non-Punjabi Indians (in India).

    4. I’ve not been to Kashmir yet. However I have been to several regions in India for short periods of time. My longest stint was in the central Northwest, as my place of permanant residence is there. I therefore am speaking about the customs of the people in this region of India, as well as the customs of the people I have lived with in other regions for a short period of time. There are similarities.

    5. Why do I feel that if I was an Indian all of you would be, like, ok with my posts? Somehow I get the vibe that it is not appreciated here for a non-Indian to make comments on India. India is the country of my residence, and although not the country of my birth, I feel I have a right to speak about it and I feel my opinions are well informed. Not only well informed, they are based on experience. Does that bother some of you that a non-Indian may have more experience with Indian culture (in many of it’s wide varieties) than you? Are some of you satisified to write me off as some sort of “tourist” in the sub-continent? I am not a tourist. I live and work there most of the time except for short periods when I return to America to re-connect with family.

    6. To be honest, I am very hurt that, although my posts were meant to shed a (positive) light on some Indian customs, they were taken in the opposite spirit and therefore I find myself “banned” from posting yet again. I just don’t understand it. Especially when in a personal exchange with one of the administrators here he was so mis-informed about one aspect of Indian culture that he said the Kama Sutra was a manual for sexual slavery. I’m sorry, but this is the very thing that makes me feel that I do know more about Indian culture than maybe some of you, or at least one. Is that a bad thing? Can I not know more about the psyche and ethos of Indian culture just because I was not born there? On the other hand I am not an expert. Yet my knowledge of Indian culture is not academic. It is based on experience and deep love.

  10. The above post got posted twice I think due to the new comment that popped up after posting it that in order to avoid offensive statements a tech thingy has been enabled that would require one to wait a few moments and post again.

    I wonder if that new message and tech thingy was enabled because of me? If it was, again I feel hurt (I’m an emotional woman and tend to take things personally). Where in any of my posts have a used obscene or offensive language and what possibly could anyone take a serious offense from anything I wrote anywhere?

    Anyway, to continue on my theme from above…

    The thing about ABCD men only wanted IT women or doctors was more or less a joke, albeit, based on experiences that many women I know have had. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m assuming that most young ABCDs parents are not entirely uninvolved in whom they choose for a life-partner. I have seen ABCDs date all kinds of people, but mostly I have seen them settle down with a partner from the same language region their parents have hailed from in India, and someone who is from a similar economic and career background. Now proove me wrong. Of course this could be said about almost anyone in the world, right? Birds of a feather flock together. However, on this particular site, Indians are the topic and most of the contributers here are Indians – ABCDs and Canadians I assume. NO OFFENSE WAS MEANT! It was more or less a joke based on experience. However, aren’t there some websites online devoted to broken hearted non-Indians who fell in love with an ABCD only to find that they would not marry them primarily due to the above factor (family objection?) I think it is not uncommon.

    But gee, I guess I can’t talk about that because I’m not an ABCD.

    It seems some of you are on the defensive. Like I automatically have to be either 2. someone with a hippy-dippy attitude towards a romanticised India that’s full of cool pot-smoking sadhus and Kama Sutra style tantrik sex OR b. some uptight holier-than-though whitie who abhors anything “ethnic”. Please don’t stereotype me and thereby stereotype the country of my chosen residence in the same vein. I am neither of the above. I am just a normal girl who’s destiny somehow landed her in another part of the world – which she happens to actually love in it’s entirety – the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful.

    Can I not share that with you all in order to give you another insight into the country of your origin or your parents origin? What’s wrong with that?

    Anyway, whoever it is that will not allow me to post from my other computer… if you see me fit after this long and heartfelt explanation, then please life the ban.

    Dil Se, Dignitary

  11. But I do feel I know more about Indian culture than you guys simply because I spend extended periods in the sub-continent, living with and like the locals, adopting virtually all of their customs especially in regards to basics like evacuating, bathing, cooking, eating, etc.

    Dignitary, I wasn’t trying to butter you up by saying that I respect your experiences and appreciate your comments. I really do. You do have a very unique perspective and I love reading others comments because…well, I like to hear other peoples’ perspectives! I admit that I probably know very little about each and every single one of the 1,000+ cultures on the subcontinent, but I appreciate their differences, and by extension, the different experiences people would havel. Please share your experiences and your insight. I for one really like hearing about it, I’m sure your experiences were extremely interesting and you have very insightful comments about them.

    But no matter what race you are, please don’t add judgmental or condescending or grossly overgeneralized tones to your posts, such as “I can not believe how removed you all are from your culture” or snarky titles like “India 101.” Please appreciate that “Indian culture” means something different to each one of us, with a few underlying commonalities. Respect those differences.

  12. Dignitary, I only speak for myself. I said above there are white people who know far more about India than me. Whilst that’s not ‘being Indian’, I would be foolish to say I can comment on being British if you can’t comment on being Indian, as neither of us were born in those respective countries. However nobody’s really objected to you commenting and most have praised your knowledge.

    What bugs me – just a little – is the kind of point-scoring like this:

    Does that bother some of you that a non-Indian may have more experience with Indian culture…than you?

    I think you want to hear the answer yes. You’re clearly very proud of your Indian knowledge, and that’s great, but repeatedly trying to highlight that you’re ‘more Indian’ than an Indian is a bit silly. That’s all.

  13. … I find myself “banned” from posting yet again.

    Not true, obviously.

    I wonder if that new message and tech thingy was enabled because of me?

    No, it prevents comment spam.

  14. Can I not share that with you all in order to give you another insight into the country of your origin or your parents origin? But I do feel I know more about Indian culture than you guys Wow. I didn’t realize how much you guys (and girls) are removed from Indian culture. And I think it’s because I’m “too Indian” for them – even though I’m white! OK, India 101.

    Honestly, I found your posts to be generally interesting. Some of it I knew, some of it was fresh information.

    HOWEVER. Where you lost me– and perhaps others– is the above-referenced sarcasm and condescension. It’s not that ‘you can’t do it because you’re white’ or anything like that, and the function about repeat posting has been on for a few weeks not, so not an insult or attack or response to you. (perhaps you have some concerns over being accepted in this space and maybe come out on the defensive?) But please don’t come into someone else’s house and condescend to them and act like a know-it-all, or turn this into a competition where you’re #1 most Indian person. I think regardless of race, culture or country of residence, we all know that’s not the way to make nice.

  15. Dignitary:

    If you’re banned from posting from another computer, we can’t know how or why unless you tell us what the IP address of that computer was, or what handle you used to post under before.

  16. “HOWEVER. Where you lost me– and perhaps others– is the above-referenced sarcasm and condescension”.

    Well, Desi, sarcasm is a form of humor which sometimes employs a false condescension. I admit, I tend toward sarcasm, that has always been my nature. But no harm is meant by it.

    “She may have been facetious but saying the above comment about guys only liking IT and Docs, but from where she stands, this is the equivalent of using the term “nigger” to a black person.

    No, Lovin, there is no connection betweeen the two. And besides, it’s ok to use the word “nigga” nowadays, I have been told. Appearantly there is some difference between the word “nigga” and “nigger” symbolically, but I haven’t yet understood that. Culture and cultural mores in America sure have changed since I was a kid here (which wasn’t so long ago by the way). When I first heard the term “nigga” used in music I was totally shocked. When I was a kid growing up, that word was considered disgustingly offensive, but now it’s like, OK. Somehow though, it still doesn’t sit right with me and I am relunctant to use it. Does that make me “un-hip” or something?

  17. Well, Desi, sarcasm is a form of humor which sometimes employs a false condescension. I admit, I tend toward sarcasm, that has always been my nature. But no harm is meant by it.

    and this would be a true condescension? In the future if I don’t understand any of the big words or topics in your comments, I’ll either get a dictionary or ask you to use smaller words, mmm-kay?

    And besides, it’s ok to use the word “nigga” nowadays, I have been told.

    at your own risk, I guess. I haven’t heard about anybody getting the green light on that one.

  18. Dignitary,

    I agree that the “Desi guys only date IT/doctors” might have been in jest, with some degree of personal experience behind it, but this nigga/nigger is SO NOT Ok. No. It is not OK to use either one. I understand that nigga has become a reclamation word, but I still think it’s an ugly word and while I am less offended when a black uses that word, I still find it offensive in general. The word “nigger” is offensive, at all times. Blacks use the word “nigga” to describe themselves or other blacks, with negative (Chris Rock) or positive (Tupac) connotations. But it is their own community identification, one of their reclamations; why would you feel the need to use it? Do you identify with that culture?

    It’s sort of the same as when we mock desi accents. It is insulting and offensive, yet acceptable within our culture if done by someone within the culture. Why? I believe it’s because for someone from outside the culture (say, for example, a white American) were to do it, it might be perceived as threatening, whereas it’s safe were one of us to do it.

  19. No, Lovin, there is no connection betweeen the two. And besides, it’s ok to use the word “nigga” nowadays, I have been told

    i REALLY wouldn’t try pulling this off in the hood. And yes there is a connection, but if you an’t see it, i’m not going to argue this point.

    Somehow though, it still doesn’t sit right with me and I am relunctant to use it. Does that make me “un-hip” or something?

    well at least there’s one race you won’t offend today.

    I have seen ABCDs date all kinds of people, but mostly I have seen them settle down with a partner from the same language region their parents have hailed from in India, and someone who is from a similar economic and career background. Now proove me wrong.

    nothing to prove wrong here, it happens. One thing I don’t understand is how many white folks take offense to something like this…as if since we live in America that we are closed minded for preferring our culture, our way of life, and our language. That we should by default marry anyone and everyone. As I said before in a previous post, it’s something else to GROW UP in a country, a culture, where your parents aren’t well versed in it and you have to figure it out for yourself. Where when you go back to India to visit, you’re an American, and in America, you’re Indian. You’re not the same thing in teh same place. So you date everyone learning about different ways of life and at the end you choose to go w/ the way you know inherently, the desi way, the way where you can still cling to your cultural identity yet mesh w/ another culture seamlessly…what’s so wrong w/ that? On this I speak from heavy experience.

    Why do I feel that if I was an Indian all of you would be, like, ok with my posts?

    on the jokes, yes, on the insights, no. I find you to be refreshingly open and aware about India and I respect that. I do. But I don’t like how you feel that just cuz you live there NOW that you know what it’s like to be Indian. You don’t know what it’s like to grow up in India and feel the culture clash, the values clash, etc as many ABCDs have had to. You live there now as a grown woman it’s a whole different story. Trust me there’s a huge difference, if you had grown up in India, then culturally, experientially, some of your comments would make sense.

    if someone wants to really get to know India, that staying less than one year in one place would not really do the place justice.

    there’s a difference between knowing India and knowing what it’s like to be Indian, particularly an ABCD for reasons mentioned above. Also, you fail to realize that ABCD’s technically speaking have their own culture unique in relation to their parents and grandparents.

    Especially when in a personal exchange with one of the administrators here he was so mis-informed about one aspect of Indian culture that he said the Kama Sutra was a manual for sexual slavery. I’m sorry, but this is the very thing that makes me feel that I do know more about Indian culture than maybe some of you, or at least one.

    look if you want to correct our misperceptions, please do. Just leave out the ‘india 101’, ‘I’m more indian than you’ comments. You sound like a wannabe.

    Are some of you satisified to write me off as some sort of “tourist” in the sub-continent? I am not a tourist.

    so how does it feel to be marginalized? I hope you eventually get the point that all your knowledge is great, but your view of your knowledge and your comments to us about how you are more Indian hurt like the tourist comments as well.

  20. Why do I feel that if I was an Indian all of you would be, like, ok with my posts?

    You live in India and obviously didn’t cultivate your derisive attitude toward ABCDs via this post alone, you undoubtedly learned this in-country along with your appreciation for squat-toilets. I’m pointing this out because if you hadn’t said you are “white,” I would have taken you for an Indian-born Indian who arbitrarily dislikes all foreign-born Indians…

    That said, for as much as you know what you know about India, one thing that escapes you and all other people who “talk” about “confused desis” is the fact that we actually know quite a bit about India, we are connected to it in such a way that we can never emigrate from it and we always consider people who whip us with coarse knowledge of toilets and other things “Indian” to be full of shit.

    (We’re all obnoxious know-it-alls here, some of us can trace our history to the realization of zero, thus, there’s no sense in trying to pick a fight with us, we’ll win. So, why don’t you just tone it down, join the club and keep things interesting?)

  21. I ran away from this thread after opening the Wiki link, but now I wish I’d stayed..these raging arguments are verrry interrresting 😉

    also, on a related note, squat toilets are used in many other asian nations as well, so how do their views of cleanliness/effectiveness play into this?

    Lovin, to speak for the Sri Lankans (as best as I can) we do the squat, rinse with left hand, flush down with bucket thing too. I’ve never heard of taking all your clothes off and washing your entire body afterwards(!!) Of course, you use soap and water liberally and never ever eat anything with your left hand.

    It used to be “Westernized” people who had flush toilets, now it’s accepted that anyone with any means to afford basic plumbing gets one. Even in Sri Lanka, your poop is supposed to indicate your health, so taking a peek and worrying about it isn’t uncommon…but what is all this rot about “tradition”?? I think I have some rural great uncles who refused to switch to flush toilets cause they were used to squatting…but that’s like old people anywhere who dislike changing their habits.

    I’m rather enjoying discussing desi bathroom habits because so much of it is considered weird and shameful in the west. (Sa’dia Rehman did an installation about this at the Queens Museum a few months ago)..but people in Sri Lanka now have other things to worry about besides bathroom “traditions.”

    White Trash/Digintary, your comments in general have been interesting and I’m glad you post on this site, but your comments on this thread really have been extremely annoying. You wonder

    I’m not a quasi-spiritual-new-age-hippie who hangs out in Hrisikesh smoking pot. But I do wonder what ABCDs have against such people.

    you ask:

    I do know more about Indian culture than maybe some of you, or at least one. Is that a bad thing? Can I not know more about the psyche and ethos of Indian culture just because I was not born there? Can I not share that with you all in order to give you another insight into the country of your origin or your parents origin? What’s wrong with that?

    And just THAT, in a nutshell, those very questions, are why “we” are disinclined to discuss anything with non-desis who like to talk about the psyches and ethos and hearts and minds, of the entire bloody subcontinent. You return home, to the West, to “reconnect with family”…for us, family is here, family is there. There is no “re” connection. It’s always connected.

    I see that people have tried to explain why your statements were condescending and insufferable..at first gently, and then with increasing exasperation…but you still don’t seem to get it. We’re glad you like India, we admire your devotion to the language, culture and customs. Authenticity (at least for me) is a foolish word, so please don’t think we’re excluding you because you are not-desi…But it’s exactly what you just did – sort of gloat about your knowledge of some basic things that we learn so instinctively it’s really not worth discussing – that is, frankly, a huge turn-off.

    Desidancer, is the indian sari 3-4 yards? My mom always buys 5-6!! No wonder I have, like, 10″ of thick pleats in front of me!!

  22. For the sake of clarity, let me fix some bad html-

    you ask:

    I do know more about Indian culture than maybe some of you, or at least one. Is that a bad thing? Can I not know more about the psyche and ethos of Indian culture just because I was not born there?
    Can I not share that with you all in order to give you another insight into the country of your origin or your parents origin? What’s wrong with that?

    And just THAT, in a nutshell, those very questions, are why “we” are disinclined to discuss anything with non-desis who like to talk about the psyches and ethos and hearts and minds, of the entire bloody subcontinent. You return home, to the West, to “reconnect with family”…for us, family is here, family is there. There is no “re” connection. It’s always connected.

  23. amitfraa, I don’t know how I missed it, but I see you mentioned Sa’dia Rehman too! I linked to a NYTimes article, but it’s great to see more people take notice of her.

  24. To bring some sanity to this hair-splitting of measuring ones ‘Indianness’ (as if it could be measured by the level in a lab beaker), I hereby present to you the ultimate Indianness test (‘N’-nasal):

    oooh..neele gagan ke taley subah ke paanch bajey haath meiN lota, lote meiN paani khethoN ki oor chaley…

    Those who ‘get’ the above lines, are true Indians, I hereby declare :p (sorry ppl, Ingleesh translation won’t help).

    btw, I can’t help but be bemused, as to how people are passing verdicts that the squat toilets (WC) is used only in ‘Southern’ India, or ‘rural’ India or ‘just’ villages.

    Circa 2005, propah Bombay: Most houses (yes, those highrise 20 storey aptment complexes in Bandra/Juhu included), have the Indian types. If the aptmnt has two toitets, then it’s higly likely that it will have one of each type. And houses which have just one, well, almost 90% of them are squatties. Not to mention the chawl-system and old houses, which are 100% squat. From my travels across Maharashtra, and all four S.Indian states, the same holds true. (I am wondering, aren’t there any IBIDs, hanging around in the comments section?)

    Also, someone mentioned(too lazy to scroll up and look), everyone using these squat ones, remove all clothes, take a bath ..etc.etc. No sirjee. Sorry. It might be true, during ones early morning ablutions, when the trip to the loo is coupled with a shower..but definitely not during the rest of the day (except ..except maybe in v.few pure shuddh Brahmin households, of which I claim no expertise). Infact, in India, very rarely you’ll get the toilets and showerroom(which is called bathrooms in India) combined together in one room. Usually they both are separate. And in Bombay, in 99% of houses, it’s separate.

    Cicatrix#76 in her first 3 paras, sort of fits my experiences as well. Personally, I find the western seats..errhmm..quite literally, PITA(pun intended). The squat is simple, easy to use, easy to clean, doesn’t hurt and all that. Can any of you tell me, are there (m)any desi homes here who install the squatties in US/UK? There was a great discussion on slashdot sometime back about the pros-cons of all diff. toilet styles. Can’t get hold of that link. It discussed some harmful effects of the western style..hernia, splisters and more.

    cicatrix: just like the toilets, there is no standard in lengths for the saaris. Try the nau(9)-vaaris (the ‘whole nine yards’ phrase comes frm here, methinks). And, if you wear em properly, you don’t have to have a 10″ thick pleat.

  25. Cicatrix- as I understand 9m saris are more predominant in Bengali culture, but the 5-6m is standard for the course.

    Suhail- I have seen a hybrid squattie in US. It looks just like a good ole western throne, but it has 2 little side blocks for auntie’s feet, like the old school squatters have. I assume one climbs up and perches. So it’s the best of both worlds perhaps. Or somewhere for the ABCDs to rest their newspapers…

  26. Can I not know more about the psyche and ethos of Indian culture just because I was not born there?

    Essentializizing “Indian” culture like this is bad form. Try:

    “I’ve gained a sense of contemporary culture in India through living in Bombay, UP, Rajasthan, and Mysore that perhaps some of you are missing from not being here full time over a lengthy period.”

    “By traveling through the breadth of South Asia, I’ve learned to see commonalities and differences in different places; it really is quite miraculous how diverse this place is”

    “I enjoy being in India as someone who has transplanted.”

    Anyway, it’s probably needless to say at this point, but I generally enjoy your comments and also sympathize with you in that it will be harder for you to post here than people who can claim the skin color but not the experience. But don’t let that make you feel like you have license to–dare I say–orientalize 😉

  27. DD and Suhali, I should have said that as a Sri Lankan, I wondered whether Indians wrapped saris of different legnths. (as I see they do.) I was kidding about the 10″ of pleats..but I do get too many because 6 yard is a lot when you don’t have an ass. My mom wears a standard Indian-type sari (to us Sri Lankans.. I dunno what the hell the Indians would call it), but there is a Sri Lankan form which is really different.

    This description will be atrocious, but I can’t find a picture…The traditional Kandyan sari wraps sort of like the Indian, but the pallu is pleated really crisply and it’s not wide. It doesn’t drape over the arm. A ruffle is also tied around the waist, to hang lightly over the sari. It’s even harder to walk in because the pleats in front allow for less movement.

    sorry for the off-topic digression. Back to poopin’.

  28. DesiDancer: hehehe 🙂 That sounds quite funny and interesting. Perching on top of a throne & all that..would you be able to get a pic frm somewhere? I think there is a big business opportunity lying there.

    Cicatrix: Actually methinks yr description (Chandrika Kumaratunga’s style?) fits the way many Indians wear the sari too. Then again, India is a country of 1-billion plus people. So clearly, there is no ISI mark there.Chk this. I got frm wikipedia 🙂

    Sawry ennis, no more saari comments.

  29. Suhail, sorry, typo!! I didn’t presume to think you were a girl;) thanks for the link. Nivi looks like what my family wears, but the Kandyan sari is not there.

  30. oops, sorry Cicatrix– I think the way of wrapping is as varied as the color/texture of the saris themselves. Which is kind of cool, to think about how many different ways we can make one panel of fabric look…

  31. Yeah! It is!

    Though a rather dowdy one, I must say. that hatte, (in Sinhalese.. I think it’s choli in Hindi?) is like a pirate blouse..

  32. When Gandhi returned from South Africa, he travelled around huge amounts of India to try and find out what being Indian was about. After all that, he still came to a conclusion that I disagree with and so did many at the time.

    What conclusion did Gandhi come to?