Pat Oliphant of teh Washington Post and actually one of my favorite cartoonists.
Someone I know suggested substituting the dialogue to this:
“I wonder where young GWB is going with that weird speech full of explosive revelations (all lies) about WMD in Iraq.”
“As American voters, I suppose we should ask.”
“But then we would have to accept responsibility, and who needs that?”
“My vote remains weak and ineffectual until Diebold is banned from making crooked voting machines.”
I wonder when Christian leaders in the U.S. are going to take responsibility for gay-bashing, murdering abortion doctors, the fact that we’ve got an illiterate evangelical for a president who wants to take civil and constitutional rights back to some dark ages…someone let me know when that happens. It’s weird how liberal, secularized Muslims aren’t really considered Muslims by ANYONE, whereas almost anyone can call themselves Christian. They’re kind of at the stage that Christians were a few hundred years ago, declaring heresy and blasphemy everywhere, and demanding everyone toe a particular party line.
Probably no worse than those published in the Arab newspapers:
I wonder when Christian leaders in the U.S. are going to take responsibility for gay-bashing, murdering abortion doctors, the fact that we’ve got an illiterate evangelical for a president who wants to take civil and constitutional rights back to some dark ages…someone let me know when that happens. It’s weird how liberal, secularized Muslims aren’t really considered Muslims by ANYONE, whereas almost anyone can call themselves Christian. They’re kind of at the stage that Christians were a few hundred years ago, declaring heresy and blasphemy everywhere, and demanding everyone toe a particular party line.
uh, if they are secularized how much credibility do you think they will have? there are plenty of people of muslim background who are OK with liberal values. the problem is that there isn’t a viable liberal islam yet (at least beyond triviality), ‘moderate muslims’ (like tariq ramadan, who i’ve read recently) really map on to the talking points of conservative anti-modernist (though not necessarily fundamentalist) christians really well, that’s the ‘left-wing’ of muslim religious thought right now.
Oh that other bastion of subtlety: the Moonie Times. I think his stuff might be syndicated to the NYPost.
I wonder when Christian leaders in the U.S. are going to take responsibility for gay-bashing
Why should Christian leaders take responsibility for gay bashing? None of them have advocated violence against gays either explicitly or implicitly; violence is never condoned or tolerated by any of the national leaders. One example from a mainstream-Christian magazine.
murdering abortion doctors
How? when? you mean Eric Rudolph? Again, violence against abortion doctors is never applauded in Christian churches. Link 1 and Link 2. Don’t give me counterexamples from a white supremacist “church” and tell me that’s “Christianity”.
the fact that we’ve got an illiterate evangelical for a president who wants to take civil and constitutional rights back to some dark ages
ok, I can kind of agree with you on that. But it’s not Christianity’s fault that GWB has passed the Patriot act. It’s unfortunate that evangelical Christian leaders have aligned themselves too much with the GWB. Not all Christians are happy with that.
It’s obvious that your hatred for GWB and Christians stems from much more than the reasons you’ve given. You make it sound as if Christianity is a scourge upon America, and I cannot stand by and sit silently. Concern for prison reform, concern for the genocide in Sudan, concerns for the poverty crisis happening on the streets of America – those are some things Christians are working on. Even GWB’s speech writer is talking up against cruelty on animals. I’m sorry if the mainstream media doesn’t highlight those things.
…lets not digress from the topic. I am sure we can blame Bush, the Christians, the Hindus and whoever else we want to for a ton of things. But the point is that today there is a BIG problem in the Muslim society, or atleast in the way it is percieved.
I will have to agree with our Atheist here that there are plenty of people who are moderate muslims. I know cause i have lived in one of the most moderate muslim countries around. But what I felt is that invariably even most modrate muslims I have come across do have a small strain in them to want to be orthodox – and my reasoning for this has always been that invariably they tie down their faith to the ‘laws’ of the religion and by digressing away from the ‘laws’ they in a sense feel they are in the ‘wrong’.
Now, these ‘laws’ or interpretation of it has to evolve with times – as has been so for some other religions. Who better to do this than the leaders of the relgion. Will someone please stand up and volunteer ?
Disclaimer: I am not muslim, and am basing this on good personal experience. If I am wrong, no harm intended
well said…..I mean its almost fashionable to draw parallels between whats going on with the suicide bomber, radical Islam in general and Christianity….please give everyone a break..if your anywhere where the sharia is the norm…or you’ve got the “learned mullahs” in action..you’ll either be toeing a line or dead……so…everytime an ambidextrous blogger thinks its fashionable to call GWB a christian….its just about as right as calling Modi(Gujarat ) a devout Hindu…each of them use their faith to polarize the populace …
Achayens are starting to hang out @ mutiny now. This is not good sign.
Not the Washington Times. The Washington Post. The left-leaning Post.
Bong Breaker’s home town of Tooting got raided and a bunch of Desi (probably Pakistani) men were arrested this morning
The police said the raids were connected with the London bombings, but none of the arrested people were thought to be the three missing July 21 bombers. Mr Astbury said that he was not surprised at the arrests, in an area known for a very high proportion of residents from the Indian sub-continent.
“It was obvious that there were extremists in Tooting,” he said. “There was a group arrested before in Selkirk Road. It was a shock being woken at 4.50am but when you think about it it was no surprise.”
Bomg Breaker! Dont tell me you’re sitting in a police cell?
Police raided a kebab shop apparently – maybe they were hungry.
If It’s a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution – NYTimes
I wonder when Christian leaders in the U.S. are going to take responsibility for gay-bashing, murdering abortion doctors, the fact that we’ve got an illiterate evangelical for a president who wants to take civil and constitutional rights back to some dark ages…someone let me know when that happens.
Do they have cable where you live? Newspapers, magazines, the Internet, windows?
Are you in some kind of “Being John Malkovich” existence, living in the skull of Fred Phelps. That can’t explain it either, because that fool is counterprotested everywhere he goes.
Christian theology is often used to oppress others, without even getting into its bloody history before now. Christian evangelicals have a disproportionately heavy influence on policy-making in the U.S. I’m saying that blaming Islam for the jihadi nutters is like blaming Christianity for violent acts carried out by their believers. Obviously people think Phelps is nuts, and yet it’s difficult to pass legislation giving gays equal rights and protections. You think the two are unrelated? These are merely different points on the same conservative-religious spectrum. You think America’s evangelical bile isn’t responsible for the continuing inability to provide equal access to comprehensive sex education and sexual health services? Whose skull are YOU living in that you don’t think a retrogressive form of Christianity doesn’t influence our politics? I’m saying get rid of ALL religion when it comes to government matters. Whether you bomb London commuters or murder abortion doctors, you’re a crazy minority using religion as your driving force.
It has liberal perspective written all over it.
It says that the clerics know that it is not correct and yet decide to keep mum.
The more hard line view of the situation is that clerics are responsible for the actions of these suicide bombers.
Lets not fight about being racist or not. This particular art form has to portray everything it can portray. It is just trying to express the current sentiment, not necessarily artist’s racial opinions.
And as far as politics goes, GWB is just doing what is needed to get into the white-house and stay there. He is not engineering social change. He is just towing the line of social current to attain his goals.
Now, I am not saying anything about his goals. He is not responsible for current state of conservative current in the country.He is just part of it, and is using it.
Punjabi Boy, didn’t I put a post up the other day about Tooting being Terror HQ? Well, after Pakistan. Man I’m like Columbo.
Haven’t heard that much about it yet cos I’ve been stuck elsewhere all day, but getting the lowdown on it now. I know exactly which kebab shop they’re talking about, serves them right – their koftes suck. Actually, now I think about it, it was so obvious! Tooting’s kebabs are the best this side of the Red Sea, but that place was dire…a blatant cover! How did my investigative fifth sense miss it?
Oh, just one more thing…
I know exactly which kebab shop they’re talking about, serves them right – their koftes suck.
That is a form of terrorism in itself.
Are there a lot of Jihad types in Tooting then?
To be fair to Tooting, as I do hold it very dear, it’s mostly 1 – Tamil, 2 – Black (prob 75% Carib, 25% African) and joint third Pakistani and white. And 100% great food.
However a lot of the Pakistanis tend to be a bit firebrand – just going on looks. It’s a completely unscientific way of assessing it. We don’t have people handing out Islamist literature, we don’t have huge crowds outside the mosque, I don’t think we even have an Islamic school. But we do have plenty of halal butchers, normally sandwiched between Patel Brothers Hindu Goods, New Gold and Fancy House (ghetto fabulous jewellery) and RadhaKrishna Restaurant. It’s generally a very happy melting pot. Where else do you know where a pub is part of the same building as the Islamic Centre? Any fundas are quite covert.
Actually – I’ll answer that question with a superb spot in London. East London Mosque, Whitechapel, is a very Muslim area (where George Galloway won) – but was formally very Jewish. The HUGE mosque takes up a whole block, but stuck onto the back of the mosque are a pub and a synagogue. I kid you not!
It’s like a little utopian microcosm for the holy land.
Don’t mean to go away from the arguments above but …
Did you guys see the two tiny characters on the road just below the sidewalk?!?
“Boys will be boys” … LOL
oops! my bad … the 2 little “things” are on the sidewalk itself … NOT on the road
Latest news is that a British citizen of Indian origin has been arrested in Zambia in connection with the London bombings:
Wait, isn’t Punjabi Boy from Birmingham? Good God, the two Brits on here are at the centre of the axis!
Bong Breaker
Me not from Birmingham – but I do know the city.
East London, you know what – that place scares me. I’ll be honest, South London scares me – too many young men with teeth missing staring at you – and I am scared by the fact that there is a part of South London called Elephant and Castle – you step out and it is true Concrete Jungle – best place to go for Holy Vibrations is the new gigantic Gurdwara in Southall – do your worship then pop over the road to Glassy Junction – last time I was in Southall they were converting a disused pub into a Gurdwara. Class.
Oh, not sure where I got you being Brum from then. Aye, saw that big gurdwara – now west London has the biggest temple and the biggest gurdwara outside India. Did you know you can pay in Rupees at Glassy?
Converting a pub into a gurdwara eh? Well it was a logical step…Sikhs and Hindus alike have been quite fond of rolling the two worships into one. I’m not religious, but when I go to Durga Puja with my gf, everyone rolls straight across the road into the public house. It’s a religious experience.
unsubtle.
Racist! The semitic nose and all. What’s the source?
Wild guess: The NY Post???
Pat Oliphant of teh Washington Post and actually one of my favorite cartoonists.
Someone I know suggested substituting the dialogue to this:
“I wonder where young GWB is going with that weird speech full of explosive revelations (all lies) about WMD in Iraq.”
“As American voters, I suppose we should ask.”
“But then we would have to accept responsibility, and who needs that?”
“My vote remains weak and ineffectual until Diebold is banned from making crooked voting machines.”
I wonder when Christian leaders in the U.S. are going to take responsibility for gay-bashing, murdering abortion doctors, the fact that we’ve got an illiterate evangelical for a president who wants to take civil and constitutional rights back to some dark ages…someone let me know when that happens. It’s weird how liberal, secularized Muslims aren’t really considered Muslims by ANYONE, whereas almost anyone can call themselves Christian. They’re kind of at the stage that Christians were a few hundred years ago, declaring heresy and blasphemy everywhere, and demanding everyone toe a particular party line.
Probably no worse than those published in the Arab newspapers:
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/arab_press_61002b.gif
cartoon in Bahrain Newspaper
I wonder when Christian leaders in the U.S. are going to take responsibility for gay-bashing, murdering abortion doctors, the fact that we’ve got an illiterate evangelical for a president who wants to take civil and constitutional rights back to some dark ages…someone let me know when that happens. It’s weird how liberal, secularized Muslims aren’t really considered Muslims by ANYONE, whereas almost anyone can call themselves Christian. They’re kind of at the stage that Christians were a few hundred years ago, declaring heresy and blasphemy everywhere, and demanding everyone toe a particular party line.
uh, if they are secularized how much credibility do you think they will have? there are plenty of people of muslim background who are OK with liberal values. the problem is that there isn’t a viable liberal islam yet (at least beyond triviality), ‘moderate muslims’ (like tariq ramadan, who i’ve read recently) really map on to the talking points of conservative anti-modernist (though not necessarily fundamentalist) christians really well, that’s the ‘left-wing’ of muslim religious thought right now.
Oh that other bastion of subtlety: the Moonie Times. I think his stuff might be syndicated to the NYPost.
Why should Christian leaders take responsibility for gay bashing? None of them have advocated violence against gays either explicitly or implicitly; violence is never condoned or tolerated by any of the national leaders. One example from a mainstream-Christian magazine.
How? when? you mean Eric Rudolph? Again, violence against abortion doctors is never applauded in Christian churches. Link 1 and Link 2. Don’t give me counterexamples from a white supremacist “church” and tell me that’s “Christianity”.
ok, I can kind of agree with you on that. But it’s not Christianity’s fault that GWB has passed the Patriot act. It’s unfortunate that evangelical Christian leaders have aligned themselves too much with the GWB. Not all Christians are happy with that.
It’s obvious that your hatred for GWB and Christians stems from much more than the reasons you’ve given. You make it sound as if Christianity is a scourge upon America, and I cannot stand by and sit silently. Concern for prison reform, concern for the genocide in Sudan, concerns for the poverty crisis happening on the streets of America – those are some things Christians are working on. Even GWB’s speech writer is talking up against cruelty on animals. I’m sorry if the mainstream media doesn’t highlight those things.
…lets not digress from the topic. I am sure we can blame Bush, the Christians, the Hindus and whoever else we want to for a ton of things. But the point is that today there is a BIG problem in the Muslim society, or atleast in the way it is percieved. I will have to agree with our Atheist here that there are plenty of people who are moderate muslims. I know cause i have lived in one of the most moderate muslim countries around. But what I felt is that invariably even most modrate muslims I have come across do have a small strain in them to want to be orthodox – and my reasoning for this has always been that invariably they tie down their faith to the ‘laws’ of the religion and by digressing away from the ‘laws’ they in a sense feel they are in the ‘wrong’. Now, these ‘laws’ or interpretation of it has to evolve with times – as has been so for some other religions. Who better to do this than the leaders of the relgion. Will someone please stand up and volunteer ?
Disclaimer: I am not muslim, and am basing this on good personal experience. If I am wrong, no harm intended
well said…..I mean its almost fashionable to draw parallels between whats going on with the suicide bomber, radical Islam in general and Christianity….please give everyone a break..if your anywhere where the sharia is the norm…or you’ve got the “learned mullahs” in action..you’ll either be toeing a line or dead……so…everytime an ambidextrous blogger thinks its fashionable to call GWB a christian….its just about as right as calling Modi(Gujarat ) a devout Hindu…each of them use their faith to polarize the populace …
Achayens are starting to hang out @ mutiny now. This is not good sign.
Not the Washington Times. The Washington Post. The left-leaning Post.
Bong Breaker’s home town of Tooting got raided and a bunch of Desi (probably Pakistani) men were arrested this morning
Yo Bong Breaker whats the word on the street!?!
Tooting
Bomg Breaker! Dont tell me you’re sitting in a police cell?
Police raided a kebab shop apparently – maybe they were hungry.
If It’s a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution – NYTimes
Do they have cable where you live? Newspapers, magazines, the Internet, windows?
Are you in some kind of “Being John Malkovich” existence, living in the skull of Fred Phelps. That can’t explain it either, because that fool is counterprotested everywhere he goes.
Christian theology is often used to oppress others, without even getting into its bloody history before now. Christian evangelicals have a disproportionately heavy influence on policy-making in the U.S. I’m saying that blaming Islam for the jihadi nutters is like blaming Christianity for violent acts carried out by their believers. Obviously people think Phelps is nuts, and yet it’s difficult to pass legislation giving gays equal rights and protections. You think the two are unrelated? These are merely different points on the same conservative-religious spectrum. You think America’s evangelical bile isn’t responsible for the continuing inability to provide equal access to comprehensive sex education and sexual health services? Whose skull are YOU living in that you don’t think a retrogressive form of Christianity doesn’t influence our politics? I’m saying get rid of ALL religion when it comes to government matters. Whether you bomb London commuters or murder abortion doctors, you’re a crazy minority using religion as your driving force.
It has liberal perspective written all over it. It says that the clerics know that it is not correct and yet decide to keep mum. The more hard line view of the situation is that clerics are responsible for the actions of these suicide bombers. Lets not fight about being racist or not. This particular art form has to portray everything it can portray. It is just trying to express the current sentiment, not necessarily artist’s racial opinions. And as far as politics goes, GWB is just doing what is needed to get into the white-house and stay there. He is not engineering social change. He is just towing the line of social current to attain his goals. Now, I am not saying anything about his goals. He is not responsible for current state of conservative current in the country.He is just part of it, and is using it.
Punjabi Boy, didn’t I put a post up the other day about Tooting being Terror HQ? Well, after Pakistan. Man I’m like Columbo.
Haven’t heard that much about it yet cos I’ve been stuck elsewhere all day, but getting the lowdown on it now. I know exactly which kebab shop they’re talking about, serves them right – their koftes suck. Actually, now I think about it, it was so obvious! Tooting’s kebabs are the best this side of the Red Sea, but that place was dire…a blatant cover! How did my investigative fifth sense miss it?
Oh, just one more thing…
That is a form of terrorism in itself.
Are there a lot of Jihad types in Tooting then?
To be fair to Tooting, as I do hold it very dear, it’s mostly 1 – Tamil, 2 – Black (prob 75% Carib, 25% African) and joint third Pakistani and white. And 100% great food.
However a lot of the Pakistanis tend to be a bit firebrand – just going on looks. It’s a completely unscientific way of assessing it. We don’t have people handing out Islamist literature, we don’t have huge crowds outside the mosque, I don’t think we even have an Islamic school. But we do have plenty of halal butchers, normally sandwiched between Patel Brothers Hindu Goods, New Gold and Fancy House (ghetto fabulous jewellery) and RadhaKrishna Restaurant. It’s generally a very happy melting pot. Where else do you know where a pub is part of the same building as the Islamic Centre? Any fundas are quite covert.
Actually – I’ll answer that question with a superb spot in London. East London Mosque, Whitechapel, is a very Muslim area (where George Galloway won) – but was formally very Jewish. The HUGE mosque takes up a whole block, but stuck onto the back of the mosque are a pub and a synagogue. I kid you not!
It’s like a little utopian microcosm for the holy land.
Don’t mean to go away from the arguments above but … Did you guys see the two tiny characters on the road just below the sidewalk?!? “Boys will be boys” … LOL
oops! my bad … the 2 little “things” are on the sidewalk itself … NOT on the road
Latest news is that a British citizen of Indian origin has been arrested in Zambia in connection with the London bombings:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163957,00.html
also this last night
Wait, isn’t Punjabi Boy from Birmingham? Good God, the two Brits on here are at the centre of the axis!
Bong Breaker
Me not from Birmingham – but I do know the city.
East London, you know what – that place scares me. I’ll be honest, South London scares me – too many young men with teeth missing staring at you – and I am scared by the fact that there is a part of South London called Elephant and Castle – you step out and it is true Concrete Jungle – best place to go for Holy Vibrations is the new gigantic Gurdwara in Southall – do your worship then pop over the road to Glassy Junction – last time I was in Southall they were converting a disused pub into a Gurdwara. Class.
Oh, not sure where I got you being Brum from then. Aye, saw that big gurdwara – now west London has the biggest temple and the biggest gurdwara outside India. Did you know you can pay in Rupees at Glassy?
Converting a pub into a gurdwara eh? Well it was a logical step…Sikhs and Hindus alike have been quite fond of rolling the two worships into one. I’m not religious, but when I go to Durga Puja with my gf, everyone rolls straight across the road into the public house. It’s a religious experience.
big noses, rat-like characters