Say Cheese

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All day Manish has been foto-blogging (floging) highlights from the Indian State visit. He updated with this picture just a few hours ago:

This isn’t so much a post from me as it is a question to our Indian American readers. As an Indian-American, something with this picture just doesn’t sit right with me. I appreciate what the Administration might have been trying to do but…if the German Chancellor visited the U.S. would all the German American appointees be invited to pose for a picture with him? This picture (to me) smells of the unstated belief that Indian Americans somehow have a divided loyalty and are not simply American. Why the assumption that we would want to pose with “our” Prime Minister? I think I would have a hard time accepting such an invitation until I understood the logic of it. Why would I want to pose with him? Just because he is from India and so were my parents? I would most certainly want to meet and talk with him, but not in this manner. I wonder if a picture exists where the Indian American appointees were all called in to pose with just our President Bush?

I realize that I am probably over-reacting to this, but I am just curious as to what some of you think.

97 thoughts on “Say Cheese”

  1. perhaps Manmohan requested to meet the Indian-Americans appointees. Do you know if this photo includes all of them? Maybe some of them refused.

  2. abhi,

    based on empirical data from a past life, i can safely assert that a bunch of those people really WANTED to be invited to that photo op.

    when there was a state dinner a few years ago for a similar visit, every brown appointee, hill rat, association staffer, non-profit slave, lobbyist, donor…ad infinitum wanted THAT invite. my mentor, the least brown person i know, donned a sari for the occasion (the one and only time she did).

    it’s not as relevant to invite german-american appointees when the chancellor visits b/c most of the people who are part or all german aren’t 1st or 2nd gen like us. we’re closer to India. it’s that simple. as my mother is fond of saying, by the time i have grandchildren, they won’t be indian at all. and they won’t have photo ops like this.

  3. ….for the same reason you guys blogged the Indian PMs visit and not the German Chancelor’s !!!

  4. Yeah, it might be a bit overreacting on your part. Who would have thought that the children of immigrants would be working in the White House or Congress? The Irish, Italians, and Jews faced alot more resistance from the powers that be. The pictures show far the U.S. has come in terms of opportunities for immigrants and their children.

  5. Hi,

    From my experience here in US, the jewish Americans, Italian Americans, and Irish Americans will be more than eager to pose with the leader their country of origin. I think you are over-reacting.

    It is not uncommon for Jewish Americans to refer as “we” when they talk of Israel, even if they have never been there or perhaps once or so.

    Kush

  6. Yeah, I mean in all honesty I would probably have said yes as well after a moment of internal conflict 🙂 I guess I am just bothered that it has the feel of such a dog and pony show.

  7. you’re overreacting, but everyone is right, the analogy with jewish americans is better. i’m not indian, but like it or not in most of america “bangladeshi american” get’s a blank stare, so i’m a de facto one according to whites (which is what many people here would argue matters in many ways, re: the “i’m not a muslim, but white man don’t care” thread), and i don’t personally think it is a good move in terms of assimilationism (americanism) to emulate the jewish community’s double-loyalty* (a portion of the jewish community at least, many jews don’t give jack about being jews or israel). i can understand how indian americans are concerned about the ISI sponsoring terrorism in pakistan, etc. and the impact that anti-outsourcing legislation might have on their relatives. it’s human nature. so if the shoe fits. the downside of creating a coherent and organized subculture that can speak with a relatively steady and clear voice is that people will treat you as a block and not view you as much as individuals.

    • zionist jews have a lot of media and marketing talent, as well as the implicit toleration of evangelical christian americans, so their bi-patriotism is accepted in a way that i think is going to be harder for any other group.

  8. Can you say building constituencies? How many times have you heard that Indians are among the wealthiest groups in the United States? You don’t think the Bush crew wants to peel them off the same way they’re trying to peel Latinos off with “immigration reform”?

    I think you’re overreacting in thinking this is an Indian thing, but I don’t think your cynicism is unjustified–it’s electoral politics on the natioinal level, after all.

  9. I hear Abhi on this one. Second-gen peeps are Americans first. Sure they maybe of Indian descent, but is that grounds for posing with the PM? And also what goes if one of your parents is Indian and the other is not?

    If it were me, I would be conflicted too.

  10. Abhi, I think I know what you mean, I had mixed reactions when I saw this picture. On one hand, I can totally imagine how these people would want to pose with the Indian prime minister. On the other, it’s almost as if the Indian-Americans were herded together to pose for this photograph for the impression it would create of the administration. THAT irks me, imagining someone saying, “Ooo! Find all the Indian-Americans in the administration and get them together for a photograph with Manmohan Singh.” I’m probably over-reacting.

  11. i don’t think a picture would exist with all the brownies and bush…but this was appropriate i think.. just to justify the diversity of his appointees.. its cheesy yes…but hell… it’s brownie power in full force 🙂

  15. German-Americans are better integrated into America than us Johnny-Come-Latelys. It’s more of a show on the administration’s part to show that we are indeed not marginalized in the government sector. However, I wonder, too, if placing us apart like this does not call attention to the fact that we are somehow different.

    This from a person who enjoys her Indian ancestry but doesn’t like the concept of race. shrug

  16. I wonder if Americans think Deepak Chopra’s son has anything to do with Batman.

    For all you MIA fans, she’s just been nominated for the prestigious Mercury Music Prize. Dizzee Rascal won 2 years back and MIA’s been compared to him. Talvin Singh won in 99, up against Nitin Sawhney. But this year the Kaiser Chiefs will win. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the picture, I’m sorry.

  17. Why dont Indian Prime Ministers ever wear a suit ? Vajpayee used to wear a ridiculous lungi and Manmohan Singh here is not in a suit either. The only other foreign heads of state who dont wear suits are from the Gulf Sheikhdoms or from Africa. How many media personalities or business personalities in India wear lungis to office ? Image is very important in the media age. Even Musharraf wears a suit and not shalwar kameez when travelling abroad.

  18. I guess I am just bothered that it has the feel of such a dog and pony show

    It’s politics, is it ever anything but?

  19. It is not uncommon for Jewish Americans to refer as “we” when they talk of Israel

    As the descendent of Jewish immigrants, I beg you to differentiate between Jews and ZIONISTS. They’re not the same thing at all. Only Zionists would say “we” when referring to Israel.

  20. You sow multiculturalism, you reap multiculturalism……on the one hand you want desis to identify with being desi, and then, when the larger culture recognizes desis as a group, it’s bad? Can’t have it both ways. I mean, everyone runs after the diversity tag these days – right and left both ( I even had a student I was interviewing use that word: “I want to come here because of the diversity of cases you see at this hospital”. I never used to hear that word, and now I hear it all the time. Interesting phenomenon).

    So now you have politicians say, oh, look how I’ve nominated a woman, latino, etc, etc. And then they tally them up at the end: I nominated 20 minorities! So, I nominated 50! I win! (and I say this as someone who is pleased to see a diverse group of people being recruited to public office. But politicians will be politicians, their share the same DNA whatever end of the spectrum they occur on.)

    Do you suppose if this had been a picture with John Kerry and the same constitutients you would have felt the same thing?

    (Not a snark, abhi, a genuine question. I think about that myself sometimes – how I’m willing to let things slide for someone I would might vote for and not for someone else. Come on, admit it, SMers. We all do it to some extent….it’s a tough thing to fight, isn’t it? Our own nasty preconceptions)

  21. Ok, since GW isn’t in the picture, I should amend that to: what if it wasn’t Singh in the middle, but the American President? Then I suppose I would agree with you: cheesy, cheesy.

    Ugh. I’d be a lousy politician. I’d insult everyone, tell them what I really think and never get any votes….it must be quite hard to do, really, for all that we make fun of politicians.

  22. Oh, wait he is in the picture! Ha! I didn’t even recognize him. I really do need those reading glasses I’m supposed to get.

  23. Could it be that the 2nd generation Indians have ‘shame’ associating with India and as a result may be more eager to be called Americans, then other groups??

    Dont take this as my assesment/judgement of 2nd generation americans.

    In God father II I remember a scene where Italian Americans in a street are celebrating a festival and waving Italian flags. (The scene when DeNiro goes to kill the ‘Boss’ of the neighbourhood). I brought that up to show that the Italians may not be as eager in their second gen.

    with the big caveat, of the fact that time is different now and Indian Immigration pattern is different than from other say Italian in early to middle last century.

  24. MD does make a good point about you are a Desi if you identify yourself as such. But regardless of who is at fault, I do agree with Abhi that his picture is a little insulting and a testament to the fact that the Second Generation Indian Americans have not yet cut their umbilical cord to India. Also this has nothing to do with the Germans being here for longer than the Indians. It has all to do with the ability of the Europeans to melt completely in the American melting pot within a generation and also the tendency of the American general populace to accept the European immigrants as Americans. How many people mention the fact that Albright or Kissinger were first generation immigrants who had spent over a decade in their native countries before they moved over to the US. If Fareed Zakaria becomes the Secretary of State, can you imagine the number of stories about him which will mention the fact that he immigrated from India ? Compare that to Albright and the fact that she immigrated to the US when she was 13. Ok some of you will say that Albright does not have an accent. So what about Kissinger ? He has a much thicker German accent than Fareed. How many times do media stories mention the fact that Kissinger spent over a decade in Europe before he moved over to the US. I think in the end its all about ‘appearance’. Indians have a different color and look different. We will always stand out. 3rd or 4rth generation Indian Americans (presuming there is no outmarriage) will still stand out as much as a FOB from Patiala who came over day before yesterday.

  25. Interesting Guest list.

    A Tata. An Ambani. Plutocracy lives.

    David Brooks from NYT (Bangalore is Flat! India is Flat! My wife is Flat!)

    Fred Barnes from the Weekly Standard.

    Sam Brownback

    Brandon Chiller, a St. Louis Rams linebacker and his father Ram! (A Ram playing for the Rams, this has to be a joke.)

    Tom Delay and Thomas Abraham Councilman from Sugar Land TX (SugarLand has the highest 5 of Asians of any non coastal US county)

    Dough Feith (The stupidest Motherfucker in the world)

    Journalist Raghubeer Goyal (reward for asking stupid questions?)

    Bobby Jindal

    Mrs. Indra Nooyi, President and CFO, PepsiCo Inc (Don’t forget to give the President the middle finger)

    ChristinI B. Rocca

    Dentist Shabbit Hashim (Indian Muzlims represent)

    The Rev. Dr. Bernard Malik, President, Federation of Indian American Christian Organizations of North America

    Dr. Rajwant Singh, National Chairman, Sikh Council on Religion and Education (A sikh, a Muslim and a christian walk into a bar…)

    Farooq Kathwari, CEO of hotel chain (we only need one Muzlim, please go back home)

    And lots of Indian Doctors. Dick Cheney need not worry all that Mango ice cream will clog up his heart.

  26. Dough Feith (The stupidest Motherfucker in the world)

    I disagree. Douglas Zionist Feith might be a crazy Mo Fo but he has nothing on Sam Brownback. Sam Brownback is a Medieval Cave Man from Kansas who plans to run for the presidency in 2008 and is the darling of the religious right.

  27. What do you Indian Americans (I’m a Brit) think of Bobby Jindal? From what I’ve read – which is admittedly nothing that recent – he’s a tit. What are your views?

    And how do I get invited to one of these here shindigs? I’m not important or rich. Or American.

  28. Could it be that the 2nd generation Indians have ‘shame’ associating with India and as a result may be more eager to be called Americans, then other groups??

    um, no.

  29. It was Thomas Friedman who had gone bonkers with his The World is Flat thingy and not David Brooks. But Brooks is as nutty as any other so called opinion journos.

  30. Ummm Al Mujahid – When Vajpayee was in America, he wore a suit. So did Narasimha Rao. And I do believe…that Singh is wearing a SUIT. He’s wearing what is known as a Nehru Coat – which is very fashionable to wear, and very unfortunately misappropriated by Dr. Evil. But it’s still an f-ing suit. And I’m curious – why the fuck does he have to wear a suit? You should read The Little Prince by Antoine Saint-Exupery (or something). I’m pretty sure you’re mentioned in it.

  31. David Brooks from NYT (Bangalore is Flat! India is Flat! My wife is Flat!)

    I think you’re confusing Brooks with Friedman.

    Surprising that Blackwill was left out. I know he resigned in disgrace but still…I’d imagine he’s one of the key persons responsible for the Bush administration’s extraordinary handling of India at this critical time in US geopolitical history

  33. Ikram,

    “Farooq Kathwari, CEO of hotel chain (we only need one Muzlim, please go back home)”

    Kathwari is not a CEO of hotel chain but CEO of Ethan Allen. That over-priced furniture store. He has Jihadi tendancies. His 19 year old son was killed in Afghanistan for Jihad He also ALLEGEDLY funds Kashmiri seperatists.

    PS: I hate to refere some thing that has ‘Daniel Pipes’ reference but I dont have time for more research.

  34. PS: I hate to refere some thing that has ‘Daniel Pipes’ reference but I dont have time for more research.

    Dont worry about it. He has an Arabic name and hes Muslim. As Friedman wisely noted last week, if you are a Muslim, you are a suspect unless proven otherwise.

  36. Yes thatÂ’s a MAJOR over reaction from your part. After all Mr. Singh is well respected person and it will be an honour for sure.

    Why wouldn’t you want to pose with the PM of India?

  37. …Just because he is from India and so were my parents?

    Uhh yes.

    Does one have to be rid of ALL ties with the country of origin of parents/whatever in order to just BE American? I mean, you can go to absurd lengths with that logic, purging yourself of any Indian influences in search of a state of “pure” Americanness…I find the implications for identity and all the attendent anxieties revealed by this post troubling. American identity isn’t so tenuous that a mere acknowledgement of immigrant stories and histories has the power to unravel it…

  38. Without wanting to re-open the can of vermiculation that is the identity debate (although not sure if it closed at any point), are any of you familiar with the Tebbit test?

  39. I agree with Abhi, Saurev in comment #8, and others who said something similar. This smacks of something pretty cynical.

    Here’s my litmus test -how important are those staffers? Are they South Asia speciliazing policy wonks? Constitution parsing legal experts? Key advisors on GW’s latest social-welfare reform bill? If they are, then fine, great. (And no doubt they all wanted to be there. You don’t decide to work for the White House and turn down anything with the president, no matter who the other guy is.)

    But I think most (not all, just most) of those happy brown faces were drawn from the secretarial pool, mailroom, ranks of junior staffers to unimportant congretional districts…the make-me-coffee-and-xerox-this echelons.

    In which case, yeah..it’s pandering to the Indian PM, opportunistic re desi donors, and rather patronizing overall.

    Also, if I’m not mistaken, this group is from various South Asian countries, yeah? If the Italian President came over, would they invite Spanish, Portugese, and French staffers cause he’s “from their part of the world”? Don’t think so.

    I could be wrong, but this is the same administration that flaunted a rainbow of diversity ON stage at its convention for the cameras, conveniently ignoring the sea of white below.

  40. Yes, I confused Freidman and Brooks. I apologize for calling David Brooks’ wife Flat. She is not Flat.

    I screwed up the Feith quote too. It comes from from General Tommy Franks, who called Feith “the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth”. I apologize to Feith’s mother.

    I like the Nehru jacket (top half of a Shirvani). Much better than a western suit. Even better than that is the Safari Suit. All Indians should wear a safari suit whern visiting the USA.

    That MIM is freaky. Anyone with a Muslim name is monitored by these freaks. I’m changing my name — maybe something like Hank.

  41. “But I think most (not all, just most) of those happy brown faces were drawn from the secretarial pool, mailroom, ranks of junior staffers to unimportant congretional districts…the make-me-coffee-and-xerox-this echelons.”

    First off, that is awfully presumtious of you to try and guess their professional background. And if they are secretaries and junior staffers, why can’t they have their picture taken with Bush and Singh? Or are such courtesies extended only to our social betters?

    It is certainly better than the treatment meted out to the staff of the Four Seasons in Boston when Narasimha Rao was PM. On his visit (1994?), it was rumored his staff asked the hotel management that no black employees be assigned to the PM’s suite. But hey, I guess it’s always easier to get on Bush’s case for pandering (but if the Dems do it, it’s called outreach).

  43. “Surprising that Blackwill was left out. I know he resigned in disgrace but still…I’d imagine he’s one of the key persons responsible for the Bush administration’s extraordinary handling of India at this critical time in US geopolitical history”

    Blackwill wrote an extensive essay on the new India-U.S. relationship in the current issue of The National Interest.

    “The India Imperative” http://www.nationalinterest.org/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=1ABA92EFCD8348688A4EBEB3D69D33EF&tier=4&id=9EA0A265EC604928ADC70093025778D1

  44. Bong breaker, the Tebbit test was whether an immigrant who chose to live in England would support England or his country of origin in a game of cricket. Luckily for our “South Asian” friends here, the intersection of major competitive sports played in the U.S. with those in the sub-continent is a null set…unless the crew here is willing to include Japan in South Asia, in which case there is baseball 🙂

  46. Well, face it, Abhi. German-Americans (or any Euro-Americans) are still a lot more ‘accepted’ because of similarities in looks/culture etc. Brownies look different and that DOES make a difference. You didn’t have German-American internment camps during WWII, did ya?

    But then again, posing with the Indian PM does not necessarily mean he is ‘their’ PM. It does seem that 2-gens are in a unique position of being diplomatic liason between the 2 countries, and I can see why there would be a few people who wouldn’t mind performing that role.

    Ok, I’m a 1-gen, so my opinion does not count for much, but I do have many ABC friends who are glad to attend events of the China or Taiwan embassies.

    However, one of my colleagues is half-chinese, half-irish, and she always goes on and on about the irish half of the family, and very little about the chinese half. I asked her about it and she’s like: ‘It’s a question of the foreignness which is somehow closer to mainstream here’. Primarily, according to her, US is a derivative of Euro/Greco-Roman values and culture, so that is always going to be more acceptable.

  47. Let’s not turn this into a Republican/Democrat thing. Pandering is a bipartisan sport.

    In this context, I agree, given the community we’re talking about. But they two parties generally pander on different things, based on what their consultants tell them their weaknesses are. In surface level ways, greasy Democrat politicians are more likely to do a “Michael Dukakis on the tank” and greasy Republicans are more likely to pander to racial minorities.

    This smacks of something pretty cynical.

    It’s a political photo-op. It’s inherently cynical, but it’s probably the least cynical thing the Bush Administration did all of that day.

  48. Not to send us off on a tangent but while we are contemplating let me ask this question: The last time the Chinese President came on a State visit to the U.S. were the Chinese American appointees called in for a similar picture? I don’t know the answer. They are more similar to us in that many Chinese Americans are only a couple generations removed from China. I wonder if the fact that China is Communist would play in to such a photo-op decision.

    Incidentally there is a funny story involving the Chinese President, the Secret Service, and my brother during the Clinton admin. 🙂

  49. Not to send us off on a tangent but while we are contemplating let me ask this question: The last time the Chinese President came on a State visit to the U.S. were the Chinese American appointees called in for a similar picture? I don’t know the answer.

    A more entertaining question is if Mr. Prime Minister will round up all the American backpackers in the Delhi area to pose with Mr. Bush if/when he comes to visit 🙂

  50. Do you think they presented PM Singh mithai? And what will they be having for dinner? If I were on a state visit, that would be much more important to me than anything else 🙂

    I think I should go eat lunch.