Something depressingly predictable has gone down in the wake of last week’s terror attack on London (thanks, RC). The backlash we worried about has commenced:
Arsonists set a mosque in northwest England on fire on Saturday, police said, two days after a string of bomb attacks across London killed at least 50 people.
According to the Hindustan Times, authorities are searching for two white men in their early 20s, who were spotted near the mosque before it was vandalized. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the only religious edifice that was harmed:
There were also reports in the Indian media Sunday that a Gurudwara — a Sikh temple — had been vandalised in an arson attack in Leeds.
According to the spokesman, two Sikh temples were attacked.
An attack for an attack and the whole world going up in smoke. Those who are responsible almost seem to be saying, “Hurt us and we’ll hurt you, too” all the while forgetting that they are attacking their own, not to mention their suffering own. As people have pointed out on this very blog, the areas that were hit are quite Muslim, quite brown. We didn’t get a courtesy warning to stay home, we died and bled, too.
The attack on a mosque is awful enough, but going after a Gurudwara…that stings in a different way. You know, I had naively hoped that this wouldn’t happen across the pond. Contrary to America, where Sikhs are more scattered and less understood, I thought that in England, people were more knowledgeable about Sikhism, that they could tell the difference between al-Qaeda and an innocent group of people who had nothing to do with transportation treachery. Perhaps some, if not most of the English can…but much to my alarm, there are quite obviously a dangerous few who can’t. To them, a turban is a turban is a turban. Bend it like Beckham and bomb it like someone ignorant.
“Such attacks are an affront not only to the great Sikh religion but to entire humanity,” the spokesman said.
“The Sikh community in the United Kingdom has carved out a highly respected place for itself in the British society through its industriousness and commitment,” the spokesman said.
None of that matters. We are foreign and we wear turbans, just like that bastard Osama. Thanks to a coincidence of complexion, we are complicit and we will pay.:+:
More UK Backlash as reported by the Hindustan Times:
The Muslim Council of Britain has claimed racist material contained in e-mails sent to it crashed its computer system while racist propaganda has been prominently posted on a number of Internet websites, while Kent police is investigating two assaults on Muslim men in Dartford.
The London bombings have also given the British National Party a new campaign. The party’s website on Saturday claimed: “Following the Islamic fundamentalist massacres in London, two tendencies will rapidly become apparent: First the pro-government media will swing into action, bringing out a steady stream of injured ordinary Muslims and a flood of ‘moderate’ Muslim spokesmen to condemn the extremists. Second, millions of ordinary Brits just won’t believe them, with severe extra strain on race relations as a result.”
Humanity is a fairly self-destructive species, I am continually amazed that we still exist.
You know it’s interesting to note that my favorite Yoda phrase fits here: “Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering”.
England is no execption when it comes to racial/ethnic problems. Don’t forget that neo-nazi skinheads originated there; or that ‘paki’ as a racial slur started there also.
This is quite sad. I thought that this sort of ignorance was virtually nonexistent in today’s UK… looks like I was wrong.
A few rotten eggs can really screw things up.
Yes, but the least we could ask for, given how horrendously they have treated their desis in the past (well, that, and that whole colonialism thing), is some accuracy in the insanity of present day hooligans.
There’s an old saying about the American South–it’s not the heat, it’s the humidity; it’s not the hate, it’s the stupidity.
Comfortably perched thousands of miles away, Saurav
Hi, first post here.
I agree that the Sikh spokespeople are responding in entirely the wrong way. They’re trying to argue that they are “good” migrants, and are not to be confused with Muslims. This only leaves them open to more attacks, as racists sure can’t tell a Sikh from a Muslim, and their statements don’t sufficiently condemn racism against Muslims. The tone is entirely off.
halwa puri
I did not read that tone into the statement by the Sikh organisation. They are simply affirming their British identity and the contribution they have made to Britain. Sikhs want to affirm their identity, they are not Muslims and correcting that erroneous impression is a natural one. Nothing wrong with that.
The responses to this are hysterical especially from Saurav. Britain is not a racist society, although there might be racists amongst them. Highlighting isolated incidents and ascribing them such importance distorts the fact that Britain has gone out of its way to be vigilant against hate crimes in the aftermath and community relations are good.
Nothing wrong in particular, except for the complete lack of solidarity with Muslims. My comments are not a condemnation, but I wonder why their statement is so cold. They should be saying hands off gurudwaras and hands off mosques. No community should be targetted.
halwa puri –
don’t base the opinion of all Sikh groups on two sentences you read on a blog. Every press release I wrote or sent out after 9/11 expressed solidarity with the Muslim religion. Whenever we said don’t target Sikhs, we also made it a point to say the same for Muslims. Unfortunately, not a single press release from the Muslim front echoed that sentiment in our favor. Most Sikh groups continue to write the same way as before in regards to backlash and have never condemned the Muslim religion.
Anna – thanks for this post.
I was being somewhat flip and careless with my words, but I wasn’t being hysterical (I could see how you might read my comment as such though). I was referring more to the history of Britain’s race relations with desis than anything else (which I actually know very little about, anyway, other than that it’s been bad).
That said, these are the things we hear about on this side of the pond. I would imagine they didn’t come from stellar “community relations.” But, again, I’m not there, and I don’t know anything about anything about this stuff–just some isolated anecdotes here and there. And I also the the sense that things are changing there (for the better) more rapidly than they are in the U.S.
halwa puri
They did say that in their statement. The article just did not quote it.
You really should not go down the pernicious route of somehow making Sikhs complicit in isolated acts of violence by your false assumptions and imputations. Sikhs in England dont need to be told by you about what needs to be said and done. They do it. In fact, I find your presumptions about tone made in the light of ignorance to be extremely arrogant as well as false.
I am a practising Sikh and I live in London. I can attest that the tenor of the responses to this post are hysterical and mindless. British society is much more aware of Sikhism than American society is. British society has been marked by the moderation of its responses to the attacks. Sadly for those on the extreme right no rivers of blood have taken place in the aftermath. It takes a handful of extreme-right wing ignoramuses to try and light a fire. It takes just as many ignorant people to blow this up into a large scale racist backlash which does not exist, especially by people who do not seem to know about the nature of British society and make false assumptions.
Sikhs are on guard, as are Hindus and Muslims. But we wont be coralled into a narrative that paints Britain in a light that is unrepresentative, and I will be damned if people like Halwa Puri insinuate that the Sikh response has been ‘cold’ or incorrect.
As I understand the Sikhs dont get along with Pakis/Bangladeshis in UK.
I don’t think I’d do that, and I’m glad that your messages did express that sentiment. I don’t hear enough of it, frankly. And it doesn’t matter if Muslim organisations don’t do it in return, it’s important for us to do it for them regardless. Or our committees and organisations should, anyway, since I when I say “us” I can’t claim to identify with Sikh organisations, precisely for this kind of reason.
Sonia
Sadly, I have to concur with this observation. Although much work is being done in inter-faith co-operation so that Jews, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and Hindus present a united front and show solidarity across the board in facing down extremism and any potential backlash.
They did say that in their statement. The article just did not quote it.
I’ve hardly made them complicit, I’ve just criticised their tone. Anyway if they have made those statements, then good. I’m glad Sikh organisations in England are sophisticated enough to do this. In my experience in Australia, they constantly fail to express solidarity with other migrants.
Sonia, we should start a club for people who sent out press releases to deal with 2001 attacks backlash 🙂
Anyway, what work were you doing Sonia? It’s interesting to hear you say that about Sikh org press release vs. Muslim org press releases and I’m wondering if you can give some more details or flesh it out.
The messaging that I always struggled with was how to be accurate about who was getting targeted and who was not by the government (again–just to be clear, I’m talking about government actions, not private sector backlash.) As I’m sure you know, “southasiansarabsandmuslim” became something of a media, art, and funding catchphrase, despite that the real profiling by the govt was of Muslims and Muslim-looking (to use a term that’s pretty accurate and can’t take credit for) people (esp. those of color). And, much, much more importantly, that profiling was part of a much larger immigration crackdown that had been going on for several years prior to 2001.
But that’s neither here nor there. It would be interesting to hear more about your experiences.
Is the kind of response I just got normal around here? I noticed some serious defensiveness in Jagpal’s posts, and I realised I just had to come out as a Sikh, despite not particularly wanting to, so I could somehow earn a right to say what I said above?
My observations, not a flame.
Halwa, this is actually a nice thread. If you want to read something heated try this thread.
Yeah, I see. Well, that thread has sure scared me.
Back to this topic: Is the politics of communal identity so ingrained in migrant Desi communities that a comment about a Sikh organisation’s statement is replied to with accusations that Muslims are really the ones who don’t express solidarity? How is that the point?
I don’t know, why don’t you stick around and find out? 😉
No, seriously…I think we’re all a bit rattled by what happened in London. It’s not surprising that a lot of the comments are passionate, emotional, powerful. Another thing to keep in mind is that like you, some of the people who are leaving those comments are new to the site.
I do hope you’ll stay, no matter what “response” you get…you add a fresh viewpoint to the dialogue and that’s a good thing. 🙂
Ouch, well I’d like to think that no one has to “earn” the right to say anything here. Every voice is welcome, as long as it’s not abusive.
Thanks Anna. I might just stick around and see. Cheers.
halwa puri
No defensiveness. A reaction to your statement, which was ill informed and wrong. Not only have Sikh organisations gone out of their way in defending Muslims and protesting demonisation of Muslims in Britain, you appear to be defensive about something yourself when you seek to insinuate this into a narrative of ‘communalism’ inside ‘Desi communities’.
Check yourself. You comment on something abstract like ‘the tone of a statement’ not having read the statement and you bring a set of assumptions about ‘communal identity’ into the equation. I sincerely believe you need to read and think more carefully.
Anyway, where’s Sepia’s original Sikh dude, Punjabi Boy ? Not been seen since 7/7. Hope he’s okay.
Have you got the full statement Jagpal? I’d really like to see it. Because if it says everything you claim it does, then Sikh organisations in England must be remarkable.
In my whole life, I have never heard a Sikh organisation stand up for Muslims. And that is because the organisations I know of are constantly trying to put “our” community forward as hard-working, well-behaved immigrants who only want to get along. Unlike those naughty Muslims, who we must never be confused with.
While I can accept that the comments quoted above form a small part of a larger statement, when I read them, I felt they fit straight into a politics of competing communities.
But like I said, if the statement is really spot on, then that’s great.
halwa puri
You really are full of self loathing and contempt arent you? It takes a special kind of loathing to turn an innocuous statement by a Sikh body into a conspiracy of communalism. You only see what you want to see, I guess, and not only is your hyper-sensitivity unwarranted and in bad taste, its actually a projection of your own struggles onto a volatile situation. In fact at a time when Sikhs have been meticulous in forming alliances with all religions, whilst asserting their reality as an integral part of British society, all you can do is whine and whinge and project your own neurosis on the situation. Competing communities? You dont have a clue. Competing for what? And why single out Sikhs whilst they are under threat for affirming themselves at this present moment?
I am involved in inter-faith dialogue myself and I find your attitude really depressing and pathetic.
“In my whole life, I have never heard a Sikh organisation stand up for Muslims.”
That is pure bull! In the USA post 9/11 in numerous interview on tv and in newspapers, Sikhs have expressly condemned the “backlash” against themselves, Muslims, and Hindus and others. SIkhs also did this in several meetings with President Bush and other politicians. Additionally, organizations like Sikh Coalition and others have put on presentations for the FBI, police, rotary clubs, churches, civic and business organizations, etc. where they have condemned hate crime against Muslims and also have stressed writings of both Muslim and Hindu saints are included in the SIkh Granth.
Do the Pakis/Bangladeshis in UK get along with the Hindus or any other groups there? I heard that the Pakistani and Bangladeshis don’t get along amongst themselves and have some friction with the Afghani and Arab Muslims there.
If you use the logic that the Sikh attackers use, that turban=Al Qaeda, by that token we should all attack every white person bcuz white=KKK/Neo-Nazi..it’s just ridiculous and I feel bad for the Sikh communities everywhere. They don’t make it a point to show how different they are as many Muslims do, they try to work hard and stay out of trouble (most of them). I have quite a few muslim friends and even though they aren’t troublemakers, they do have an ‘us vs them’ outlook on life and I believe this is one reason why racists go after all brown ppl thinking they are turban wearing terrorists.
one of my muslim friends has started an organization since 9/11 trying to have routine ‘town-hall’ style meetings for the general public to come to mosques and learn about Islam and the many cultures within it. i think a lot more of this type of pro-active damage control would be a great help to alleviating a lot of misguided Sikh backlash.
peace, y’all.
this earlier question by halwa appears to answer itself, no?
a quick google search for statements by the british sikh community produces this. Allow me to quote in full so everyone can find fodder for their arguments and counter-arguments directly in the text:
i left out the footnotes, you can find them at the site. also, i am neither sikh nor live in britain so i know nothing about this organization, and i welcome any context anyone wishes to provide.
having said that, i think it’s quite clear that sikh organizations are and have been condemning attacks on muslims. after all, anti-muslim hatred is a key force behind backlash attacks on sikhs. now we can argue about how the condemnation is phrased, its tone, etc., but at a certain point (i.e., almost immediately) that kind of debate starts doing more harm than good. “divide and rule” is an axiom of power. do we really want to be divided?
now, i think there has been ample evidence in the past few years that sikh males run a specific heightened risk of reprisals, for the simple reason — as painful as it is to state this obvious connection — that they wear turbans and hhave beards. ignorance satisfies itself with simple certainties. i think we need to be particularly solidary of our sikh brothers in respect of this, and i don’t begrudge them drawing special attention to their community. education, after all, is the only reliable solution.
i would at the same time comment on jagpal’s observation at the top of the thread that
if a society “is not” racist, but at the same time, racism is an active force within the fabric of that society, then what does that make it?
i don’t think categorical statements that a whole society is or is not racist make much sense. racism is at work in pretty much any society where there exists a widely perceived distinction of groups according to race or ethnicity.
the question is, what are we doing to counteract racism and indeed, to help rechannel its negative energies into positive outcomes?
finally, halwa and jagpal, i do hope you guys will stick around. this is a pretty cool place.
peace
Also check out this report by the Hindu Forum of Britain to the Home Office – http://tinyurl.com/cuk77
Just to be clear, as I understand both the Sikhs and the Pakis/Banglas dont get along with each other. I was not trying to insinuate that its only the Sikhs who dont want to get along. Brits here can educate us on the tensions between various South Asian groups in UK.
Saurav – I started Bay Area Sikhs in CA in 2000 and that turned into a anti-backlash project after 9/11.
Halwa – How about educating yourself just a little bit before remarking so strongly on this subject. Try Sikh Coalition or SALDEF or a multitude of other organizations for actual statements that have been put out by Sikh organizations in regards to backlash.
“Thanks to a coincidence of complexion, we are complicit and we will pay.”
Well stated and depressingly true. I am surprised by the arguments on here. Bickering among ourselves will accomplish nothing. We need to pressure our leaders to help us educate the public about hate crimes as we strive to demystify Islam, Sikhism and everything else. For all those who wonder what they can do– have you shared yourself with your friends and neighbors? Have you invited non-Indians in your life and broadened their experiences? It’s harder to hate Muslims and Sikhs when you like someone who is.
Lovin wrote:
How long will the “siege” mentality of a smaller group of muslim will drive the other muslim community? This “under siege” mentality causes political conflicts to be painted in religious light and feeds into the cycle of violence.
That was depressing to read. but it very powerfully expresses the reality.
Halwa Puri says In my whole life, I have never heard a Sikh organisation stand up for Muslims. And that is because the organisations I know of are constantly trying to put “our” community forward as hard-working, well-behaved immigrants who only want to get along. Unlike those naughty Muslims, who we must never be confused with.
While I can accept that the comments quoted above form a small part of a larger statement, when I read them, I felt they fit straight into a politics of competing communities.
Whew!
I’m neither Sikh nor Muslim and have never been to the UK (first trip ever, coincidentally next week) — so have no agenda thereof.
However, I found halwa puri’s statement to be
a) offensive because of the insinuation/ tone (“naughtly Muslims” — where the hell did that come from?), and
b) inaccurate. I was pulled off a plane post- 9/11 in Wash DC by the FBI and assorted sundries. Worked with a couple of Sikh groups after that incident and they continually emphasized that their work/ message included not just Sikhs but Muslims and all others of color.
Check this for a Sikh organization condemning attacks against Muslims; there are more there if you want to educate yourself (along with condemnation by Sikhs of Muslims being “registered” by DOJ).
Check this for an Arab-American orgainzation recognizing a Sikh one.
Through my work with SALDEF–Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund–I saw a lot more collaboration with Arabs, Muslims, Sikhs, other South Asians than a cursory look may demonstrate. Mainstream Muslim organizations consistently spoke our against Sikhs being attacked and vice versa.
Thanks, Preet, for your recommendations, I’ll have a look. And Siddharta, thanks for posting the statement. It is a damn sight better than I expected.
To those who are saying I haven’t educated myself (and Jagpal: is there such a category as the self-loathing Sikh? How trite), I won’t pretend I trawl the internet for statements from Sikhs in the US and the UK. I live in Australia, where I have never heard Sikh organisations stand up for Muslims. In my life. Even after Sep 11. In fact I produced some anti-racist material after Sep 11 and my local Sikh Association didn’t put its name on it. It didn’t even reply to me.
What I hear in this context is that: 1. We work hard, 2. We respect everyone, 3. We are a “wealthy” community with many professionals, 4. We do not come here illegally and have to live in detention centres in the desert, unlike those naughty Muslims, 5. If those Muslims hadn’t messed up their own countries anyway (eg Afghanistan), they wouldn’t need to come here illegally and get locked up in the desert, so we don’t have sympathy for them because they are naughty migrants, unlike us good migrants.
halwa, thanks for the update. it sounds like you are not “self-hating,” merely frustrated. good for you for venting, and for listening to people’s counterpoints however expressed.
it certainly appears that this thread has produced plenty of examples that should make you feel better. though perhaps not in australia.
as for the undertone you are worried about, well, no minority community however perceived by itself and other, is ever wholly immune from the risk of MMS. Model Minority Syndrome. it’s in all of us to some degree, as is its opposite. that’s a struggle (a jihad?) we wage within ourselves. it’s the ransom of coloniality, a price we keep on paying long after political independence.
hopefully we can recognize this struggle and find ways to turn the energy into something positive.
peace
it’s not the hate, it’s the stupidity.
Yes, all white people are filthy racists, ignorant of the world and all that, and any action by one is an action by all, always deliberate, always planned, and always coordinated by the filthy saip (as they say in Malayalam.)
But being that as it may, Sikh terrorism is not exactly an unknown phenomenon, is it? So even though this gurudwara attack was inexcusable and unwarranted, perhaps there’s a karmic debt to be paid for the murder of Indira Gandhi and the rest of that “Free Khalistan” nonsense.
Cheers, Siddharta.
Sadly, in the Australian context, I suspect many migrants have perceived a very pressing need to look like model minorities, if only to protect themselves. We recently had a Filipina immigrant, a citizen of Australia, wrongly deported to Manila by Immigration authorities. She still hasn’t been brought back because the government has still come to an agreement with her about how to do so and what to pay her. She was deported with serious injuries from a car accident, is to some degree suffering from a mental illness, and hasn’t seen her children in Australia for that whole time.
With this kind of thing going on, I can imagine lots of brown immigrants secretly working on their Aussie accents so they aren’t confused with “illegals”.
I meant the government has still not come to an agreement with the deported woman.
On the “karmic debt” issue: I don’t think so. That’s like encouraging racists to “repay” Muslims for Osama’s actions. No thanks.
Yes, but “to some degree” is the key phrase here–minority communities are not uniform (to the point where I would hesitate to call them communities at all at times) in their position in society. Particularly, in the US, for communities this is true for desis and others who clearly fall somewhere between or outside the black/white dichotomy. All this is to say that it’s not just a struggle/process within ourselves, but within our communities as well–one that gets too often overshadowed by real or perceived threats from outside that made demands for unity without nuance.
On a personal level, it has to do with how comfortable it is for you to align yourself with the powerful (for lack of a better word) vs. how comfortable it is for you to align yourself with the less powerful. This is perhaps obvious, but I think the more markers you have for or against you (class, language ability, citizenship status, income, professional status, sexuality, mental health, personality), the more likely you are to excercise your free will to go with one side or the other (to really oversimplify it).
Which would perhaps explain why Sikhs around the world react in different ways to threats against them as Sikhs.
i wonder, was 9/11 a karmic debt finally paid?
no one is innocent, every religion has total shit-for-brains losers who molest and twist holy words for evil purposes.
if the sikhs “owed” anything two decades ago, i’d contend that the scores of them who were slaughtered, mutilated and burned alive apres-Indira’s assasination paid it a million times over.
an eye for an eye and the whole world going retarded…
The Khalistan terrorists were financially supported by a number of “model immigrants” to Silicon Valley, just as the IRA terrorists have been supported by a number of “model citizens” in the US, many of them holders of elected office.
No community is completely without stain where terrorism is concerned, so nobody should feel too put-upon by any given irrational reaction.
After 9/11, the liberals in the US predicted a big anti-Muslim backlash which never materialized, although one poor Sikh shopkeeper in Texas was attacked, oddly enough.
Wow… I don’t even know where to start with you.
You could start by acknowledging that it’s wrong and racist to blame all white people for the actions of a few.
I just can’t see where on this board all white people have been blamed for racist attacks?
We don’t actually know that the gurudwara attack was fomented by white people, do we? For all we know it could have been Hindus, but this board is full of remarks about British and American skinheads, etc., which simply assume the racial identity of the evil-doers.
lol…..this Bennet dude is funny….
If that stupid organisation had not claimed the responsibilty for the Londoan bombings,would we stil not have known that the attack was by jehadi terrorists?
Right Mr Dickhead Bennet…of course…why would skinheads attack that gurdwara or any mosque?You are abloutely right….Hindus in Britain have so much more reason to be attacking gurdwaras at this time….and of course,racist backlash against Sikhs is so so unknown in US and England…..that guy in Mesa Phoenix who killed the Sikh gas station owner was not a misplaced white extremist…he was a fanatic Hindu in disguise who wanted to avenge the 9/11 bombings!!
Hope you see things in perspective….no one here argued that whites are racists…if anything I totally know that had a 9/11 occured in India,the anti-muslim backlash would have been so much more worse(Gujrat 2002 anyne??) than was in the western countries But, Please do not shut your eyes to the simple fact there is a semi-lunatic fringe amongst the whites which thinks that destroying places like gurdwaras and mosques is a good way for avenging any bombings by jehadi terrorists.
And if you are really serious about that stupid comment about the attack being a retributin for Khalistani terrorism,wait til its time for a retribution for western colonialism,the Spanish inquisition,the near-extermination of Native Americans(and so on) coz when the time for THAT rettibution comes along,we shouldnt have a single white christian standing on the face of this earth….right?
I really don’t get why people don’t understand that there always will be an idiotic minority within a country that will use moments such as these to put forth their voice.
That is the price you pay in a free society. You don’t condemn people to death for their views, even though they may be horribly skewed and messed up.
Great Britain, United States, Canada, and a few others are probably the most accepting of other cultures in the past 30-40 years. Each evolved with its own way of dealing with things and for its seperate need.
Lets stop painting GB, USA, or whatever with the racist society banner; racists exist but exceptions to the facts don’t constitute a valid arguement that overall people are racist.
It is unfortunate that innocent law abiding citizens and immigrants are being intimidated by a minority. Let the irrational anger calm down buy guiding people into a rational mindset, not by lashing back at them.
All one can ask in free societies is the laws and authorties that are in place serve them justice. If justice is served, then the society itself is validated for what it stands for. Now, when justice is not served is when you have a true cause to rally and fight a failing institution.
No one can really stop a racist if he intends to be a hater, all you can do is calmly and vigilantly make your case that ensures ALL (white black brown whatever) parties undestand that when such person acts out a crime, they are punished for breaking the law. Not punished for having a misguided thought. Racism hurts all and by playing identity politics with each other, it only serves to harm us in the future. This isn’t just for browns, but for all: Whites, Blacks, Latinos, etc. There is common ground for fighting such decay, and it rests in the enforcement of laws that do not see color, only man does. I admit, there are boundaries that cross into misguided thought to conspiracy to kill, mame, and hurt. In MOST cases, it eventually becomes clear and such people pay for their deeds.
Obviously, all said IMHO.