Most SM readers are news junkies so by now, you’ve probably come across the latest Pew survey on International attitudes towards the US –
WASHINGTON – The United States’ popularity in many countries is lagging behind even communist China. The image of the United States slipped sharply in 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, and two years later has shown few signs of rebounding in Western Europe or the Muslim world, an international poll found… In Britain, which prides itself on its “special relationship” with Washington, almost two-thirds of Britons, 65 percent, saw China favorably, compared with 55 percent who held a positive view of the United States.
I guess many Brits prefer China’s real live gulags to our merely figurative ones. Our ever-polite neighbors to the north had the following 3 word view of Americans –
Rude, greedy and violent
Well then. Personally, I don’t read too much into these sorts of polls and they reinforce my view that much of Global Politics basically boils down to one big high school with America being the richest kid on the block.
And we all know how everyone in High School felt about that kid.
In fact, it’s even worse – we’re not just the rich kid (GNP) but also the quarterback (military), prettiest / most popular (Hollywood) and possibly the overly industrious, know-it-all Eagle Scout (Silicon Valley / Religion / Patriotism / Wide-Eyed Optimism) all rolled into one. Talk about a combo that would make the chess team, literature club, & “trench-coat mafia” seethe.
That’s not to say we don’t occasionally screw things up in a “careless” Daisy Buchanan sort of way, it’s just that it’s hard to imagine a world where this measure ever becomes / remains positive for long regardless of our behavior. (Although, in supremely High School-esque fashion, experiencing a 9/11 does appear to replenish global good will).
In the end, this particular global test doesn’t feel very falsifiable. BUT, there is one wrinkle here that’s actually pretty surprising / interesting – preceptions of the US in India –
Even as anti-Americanism in Europe, Middle East and Asia continues to surge as a result of the US war in Iraq, India is the only country which has a positive opinion of the Bush administration. …”Fully 71 per cent in India express a positive opinion of the United States, compared with 54 per cent three years ago,” the survey of 15 countries conducted by the centre says. …”Solid majorities in India also view Americans as inventive (86 per cent), hard-working (81 per cent) and honest (58 per cent). Indians (71 per cent) also showed a very high regard for the American people and expressed a positive opinion of the US,” the survey reveals. …India is one of only three countries surveyed in which a majority (63 per cent) said the US pays a great deal or a fair amount of attention to their country’s interests when making international policy decisions
Commentors – would love to hear your theories on this.
As long as America continues to kick some Muslim ass America would continue to be popular in India.
India is the only country which has a positive opinion of the Bush administration.
What about Israel ? I would have imagined that America and George Bush would be pretty popular in Israel. Are the Israelis upset that Bush is not dancing hard enough on Ariel Sharon’s little finger ? Also America is pretty popular in Eastern Europe.
The article does not mention countries like Kuwait, Bonsia and Albania. I would hope that people in these countries are showing some gratitude!
Judging by the tone I glean from various Indian periodicals, I feel many in India are in a BPO / IT / military honeymoon with the US. The relative recency of US popularity seems to attest that it is influenced by the growing bouyancy in their relations. Of course, correlation doesn’t imply causation nor the order of causation. The growing number of NRIs might be another influencing factor, to improve both the image of India in the US and the image of the US in India.
Acutally, I think Global Politics boils down to one big high school with America being the violent, drug dealing, strong arming, delusional psychotic bully on the block. And we all know how everyone in High School felt about that kid.
Yep, envy is a powerful force. But you give our foreign policy far too little credit. It’s not ‘Life in the Fast Lane,’ it’s the Merovingean.
Not in the least surprising: the security and economic interests of both the US and India are moving in roughly the same direction. China, too, is going to push India and US in similar directions in the future. If anyone is going to be the ‘bully’ of the 21st century, I’d bet on China.
U.S. is playing it right with excellent support India & China. Like the great philospher Snoop Dogg say, “Its all about the dolla’ dolal’ bill”
As long as America continues to kick some Muslim ass America would continue to be popular in India.
Seriously, AM, cut the gibberish out. Frankly, it seems disingenuous of you to not notice that Indians seem to have a favorable opinion DESPITE the fact that the Bush administration is wooing Pak and Mush. Remember the F-16 offer made to Pak? Err, so, if your logic were correct, it would imply that USA is popular for kicking Muslim ass elsewhere DESPITE simultaneously giving loads of financial and military support to Pak. Mebbe Indians (you’ve made an execrable equivalance between Hindu fundamentalist Muslim-haters and all Indians) hate all Mozzies, provided they’re non-Paki Mozzies ?
Anyway, you’d be mistaken if you thought Indian admiration for America is superficial. American culture is making inroads into a slowly liberalizing India. And there’s little visceral hatred for Americans as they’re no longer considered the “other”, but much rather a nation and a culture that India should aspire to emulate.
Al Mujahid – I don’t think
as you say, has much to do with the India’s favorable sentiment. A lot of people in India actually oppose the war. The favorable sentiment, IMHO, has more to do with the BPO/IT wave and how the quality of life overall has improved. The fact that, as someone above mentioned, almost every extended Indian family has a member or neighbour in the US, has helped!
Well all in all, if India is on board, that is 1/6 of the world. So you lose Western Europe and the mideast that never really liked us to begin with. The Chinese have their own agenda.
As AM said, Eastern Europe has a favorable slant towards the USA. Strictly by numbers, the shift may not be that drastic.
Although I do want to grab a giant rubber mallet and beat my forehead with it when you hear China is viewed more favorably. CHINA? Lets see: Human rights violations that are systematically endorsed and accepted, incredible environmental/industrial trauma, has its military geared to snap taiwan in half at a moments instance, etc.
Ditto. This does highlight an important fact though: The haters have the high ground when it comes to PSYOPS campaigns right now.
You’re linking the Moonie Times on a total lie about a Kerry quote? Are you kidding me? You might as well quote Ted Rall.
Frankly, it seems disingenuous of you to not notice that Indians seem to have a favorable opinion DESPITE the fact that the Bush administration is wooing Pak and Mush. Remember the F-16 offer made to Pak? Err, so, if your logic were correct, it would imply that USA is popular for kicking Muslim ass elsewhere DESPITE simultaneously giving loads of financial and military support to Pak
If the F-16’s were so important then the Pakistanis themselves might have a favorable opinion of America as they happen to be the beneficiaries of the F-16’s. So if the beneficiaries of the F-16’s dont care about the gift, I wonder how much does an average person in India care about the F-16’s.
I was being sarcastic with the ‘kick muslim ass’ comment. However I was alluding to something else which I did not explain. I believe that a lot of Anti Americanism comes out of the war in Iraq. The fact that India itself is fighting Islamic militants in Kashmir does make an average Indian or for that matter an average Israeli more sympathetic to the claim of fighting Islamic militancy as the reason behind the Iraq War. For the same reason, Russia was also less Anti Iraq war than nations like Britain, France, China or Germnay. Russia itself is fighting Islamic militants in Chechnya. I believe that people in India, Israel and Russia are less sceptical of the Bush claim of fighting Islamic militancy in Iraq or maybe they have a better understanding of where Bush comes from because of their own experiences with Islamic militancy. Another reason for the Pro US sentiments in India might be due to the fact that India (for now) benefits more than it loses from outsourcing of jobs to India. I am sure if a survey was taken in the US, the American dislike for India would have gone up as compared to the time when there was no outsourcing.
Al Mujahid, you make an excellent point:
I completely agree, and I base it on the increasing anti-India vocalness within Slashdot forums concerning outsourcing. I find Slashdot has a high signal:noise ratio concerning perceived effects brought upon by outsourcing since there is a very high reciprocal overlap between Americans (including Indian-Americans) affected by outsourcing and Slashdot readers. While overall American views of India are diluted by those unaffected by outsourcing, I can see firsthand the marked increase in abhorrence for things Indian when confronting the reality of Indian job growth and domestic job stagnation. Defensively, the adversely affected harp on far superior domestic quality, that a domestic worker may produce what ten or twenty in India can. While a few jobs are performed better with local staff, the Slashdot audience seem to be against American companies’ job-cuts in Europe which is baffling in light of their original stance. The only inference to make is that outsourcing per se is fine, when to Europe, but there is something inherently unholy about outsourcing to India. This asymmetrical stance is rather new – the anti-outsourcing crowd seem growingly anti-India.
thoreaulylazy, I am fearful of a repeat of the early 80’s experience of the Asian community in the US. This time the recepients of hate would however be Indians or people perceived to be Indians (just like the Chinese students were harassed in Mid West Campuses over the Japanese Automakers) In uncertain economic times, people look for someone to blame. I fear India might become the official scapegoat for the stagnant American economy.
Here’s an article in The New Republic that talks about why some elements in India admire Israel for their ass-kicking.
And Asia Times in Sept 2003 described the shift by the (then) Indian govt. on the Israel-Palestine matter.
See this about how (the then)
Re Indians’ attitudes towards the US: first off, would love to know how they picked the sample
Apparently they polled 17,000 people in toto across all countries and claim that their ” margin of error was 2 to 4 percentage points”. I’m no statistician — but perhaps someone can explain how on earth Pew created a sample representative of all Indians.
My guess: some of India’s liking for the US is influenced by
a) BPO/ IT honeymoon
b) support for India militarily (“we want to help India become a great power”)
c) presence of a relative/ neighbor abroad
Almost every middle-class family I know in Chennai/ Mumbai has at least one friend/ relative abroad.
The 71% is from a random sample of 2000 urban dwellers whereas in a few of the other countries, the sample was more representative of the population as a whole as you can see in the original report. Given that the BPO/IT boom is primarily an urban phenomenon, it seems likely that this number will go down if you include the rural areas.
It’s useful to read the Pew Center’s own description of their findings. In particular, I got a kick out of seeing how the US’s view of itself stacked up against that of foreign countries.
Here are some choice bits that surprised me:
Before you go trashing the UK, you might want to consider that UK citizens were often less negative about the American character than were Americans themselves.
That also spoils your argument that other countries assessment of the US is driven by envy. It doesn’t explain our own, highly negative assessment of some aspects of the American character. [The survey also lists the areas in which Americans view themselves positively, but that’s hardly surprising. Oh, and btw, more French think of Americans as hardworking than Americans do]
Not really surprised that Canadians had a negative view of Americans.
Canada is a country that [i]defines itself[/i] based on the relatively tiny diffrences between between Canada and America.
Epoch – depends where you are really. Most people in Alberta want to be American, while Ontarians and Quebecers have a knee-jerk cynicism about anything American. The war wasn’t popular here, but there have been other issues that have affected Can-US relations negatively of late(e.g. cattle exports, lumber, etc)
… but I agree with you about the general level of anxiety about living next to the US – still we’re better neighbors than India-Pakistan, no?
No wonder. Most people’s feelings about America are complicated. “America”, after all, is shorthand for many other terms: the Bush administration, a Republican-dominated Congress, Hollywood, a source of investment, a place to go to study, a land of economic opportunity, a big regional power, the big world power, a particular policy, the memory of something once done by the United States, a set of political values based on freedom, democracy and economic liberalism, and so on. It is easy to be for some of these and against others, and some may wax or wane in importance according to time, circumstance, propaganda or wishful thinking. So it should be no surprise that some people can hold two apparently contradictory views of America at once. The incandescent third-world demonstrator, shrieking “Down with America!” in one breath and “Can you get me a green card?” in the next, has become a commonplace. This is how Economist introduces an earlier pew report on global perceptions How we all wish everything was black and white.. where people are for or against something or some other thing. Fortunately or unfortunately, it is not the case (well.. most of the times),Also, this is what Pew themselves say about survey in India All surveys are based on national samples except in China, India, and Pakistan where the sample was disproportionately or exclusively urban. As your rightly said, we should not be caring too much about these numbers, but are we or are we actually doing the opposite?
Al Mujahid, I am not so sure about the Kashmiri terrorism argument. Most Indians (and this is also true of pretty much most of India’s politicians) don’t like the American invasion of Iraq and are against it. I think the reasons for the liking are more to do with economics and improving Indo-US ties in a long time.
This time the recepients of hate would however be Indians or people perceived to be Indians
this time those impacted by economic competition tend to skew toward higher education and incomes or they’re pink-collar workers. i doubt they’ll be vincent-chining browns in the near future. frankly, i live around a lot of rednecky areas, and they don’t give a shit about IT outsourcing, they’re trying to make their rent by working two shitty low-wage jobs. the people pissy about bad customer service for their dells and IBM thinkpads these not be. the 1970s and 1980s shift away from manufacturing was an order of magnitude greater economic significance-when the dust settled you had japan, south korea and the little tigers buzzing and roaring. india doesn’t compare against that aggregate. and the balls of the angry working class has have been sent to china, repackaged and are now on the shelves of walmart as cheapo kids toys.
but i’m curious, do some people around here encounter genuine person-to-person prejudice because of the IT issue, or is it more of the regular ‘sang nigger go back to camel country’ stuff that’s always ambient among a certain subset?
as for america. we suck! but a hell of a lot less than most other countries, though if the political and legal elites have anything to say about it, we’re going to start sucking a lot more (think the bankruptcy bill which most people on the right and left opposed at the grass roots, or the eminent domain ruling by the ‘liberal’ justices that reinforces the important of walmart and target to the health of america as opposed to the ‘traditional liberties of englishmen’).
While talking about the Globe and perception you all might be interested in the claim that non-european nations intentionally made to appear smaller on the conventional maps. Dr. Arno Peters has claimed these conventional maps (mercator) as eurocentric
I was shocked to learn that the continental US land mass is SMALLER than Brazil. It sure doesnt appear so in the maps that I have seen.
A quick google will tell you all how accurate the Peter’s claim is and how unfair is the present popular map.
This reminds me of the poll(Time magazine I think) they took in other countries between Bush and Kerry during the campaign.
The only places where Bush would have won over Kerry according to the poll were Israel and India.In Israel he had a clear popular majority. In India he scored lot better than Kerry did, though it was only in high 30’s %. This could be attributed to many things like name recognition etc. But I think this is a clear indicator of the popularity in India of Bush’s current Fuck Em foreign policy vis a vis terrorism. (No points for guessing how Bush did in Europe and Muslim countries 🙂 ) He did better than Kerry in Russia also if I remember correctly, though I am not sure.
Therefore America’s popularity in the poll of this post is due to this “kick some jihadi ass” policies, growth of trade between the two nations and the popularity of American way of life. Afterall America and India(atleast Urban India) are more similar than different in terms of values.
Thanks for pointing out the contrast between lower wage jobs going overseas (although steelworkers used to make about 40,000 a year) and high-wage jobs and the relative lack of elite concern over the former.
On another point you raised, I’d suspect that the issue of hate crimes, discrimination, and violence is more complicated than a direct link betwen content of the issue driving it (i.e. outsourcing to India) and the actual effects. For example, in New York, the one hate murder of a Bangladeshi that I had a chance to learn about in a little depth was driven by several years of simmering tensions among working class enclaves marked by periodic smaller incidents (and I’m sure a continual low-level tension) which finally boiled over one day into the murder of one person (which you could consider the culmination–a newsspike where everyone all of a sudden pays attention and then proclaiming it was an isolated incident). Obviously, you can point to Backlash related to “9/11” or stigmatization of Muslims as a short-term underlying factor, but there’s a lot more at play, including the culture of intolerance that’s created and then perpetuated and changed and all. Similarly, there were immigrants who were clearly not Muslim or brown that were attacked after September 11–there was someone who was Filipino or Chinese–I can’t remember which–who reportedly had his face slashed in Flushing, NY a few days afterwards the attacks in 2001, I think.
All of which is to say there’s probably a more indirect and complex link between anti-whoever ideas and the eventual targets of racist/xenophobic/etc. actions. Vincent Chin is a good example; he’s a Chinese man that was targeted during a similar time of anti-Japan, job-loss related sentiment.
Some other people have pointed this out already, but this misreading of American foreign policy is almost insulting to the people who have died and/or suffered as a result. William Blum is an opinionated source highly critical of the United States, but it’s hard to find “balanced” accounts of this since many “patriotic Americans” don’t like writing such things 😉 and many Americans are apparently content to ignore the rest of the world unless there’s a tsunami or a major war.
For example, you rarely hear any discussion about what responsibility the U.S. has for today’s AIDS crisis given that the Reagan Administration deliberately chose not to deal with the problem at an earlier stage; you have to wonder how much farther along we (and South Africans and Haitians and Indians) would be in making people’s lives better through treatment or cures had a concereted effort to actual tackle what has turned into an enormous social problem that threatens not just lives, but the economies of several countries. One might wonder of resistance to dealing with global warming and carbon emissions in favor of energy company interests is analogous.
I do agree with you, to some extent, that as the world’s hegemon, the U.S. is a convenient target for people who have gripes about other things in which the US plays a part (as it does in pretty much everything, directly or indirectly) but there are many, many other things going on.
Arun –
Rural people in India do not have an opinion! So its doesn’t matter.
Most indians oppose Iraq war (from the same survey I guess).
Indian govt is very sympethetic to palestine cause. Though it effects its relation with Isreal. This rules out the fact that india loves ppl who kick musl ass. India is making efforts to join the arab leauge as a friend. Hell, even Egypt patched up with Isreal so why not India.
Indians truly realise who ingenious Americans are (with out envy)
“a) BPO/IT honeymoon” —may be
“b) support for India militarily (“we want to help India become a great power”)” — nobody believes that in india, actualy are quite skeptical. US only sells what india is going to have in very near future. US is desperate to sell arms to india to make some money atleast Lockheed and boeing are.
“c) presence of a relative/ neighbor abroad” — may be
Show me another influential country like India with such a GREAT collective moral charecter, despite being in hostile environment.
correction:
Indians truly realise “HOW” ingenious Americans are (with out envy)
An argument can be made against the Indian data IF it only included people in urban areas.
But I think that the perception of the US in India may be based on the relatives who are in US. Since a lot of relatives who did well in studies ended up in the US, it gives a perception that all highly educated people live in the US. Since in India, cuturally, education is VERY highly regarded, the respect for US follows.
So IMO, Indian results may have more to do with the culture that gives the highest regards to education.
I should have added (in my previous comment) a reference to this NYT story about a boy living in slums preparing for entrance exam for IIT and says his dream is to work at NASA.
RC says But I think that the perception of the US in India may be based on the relatives who are in US. Since a lot of relatives who did well in studies ended up in the US, it gives a perception that all highly educated people live in the US. Since in India, cuturally, education is VERY highly regarded, the respect for US follows.”
Looks like Pew mostly polled the urban areas in India, and given that most relatives’ of desi folks in the US are in the cities (as are the BPO/ IT boom beneficiaries) the poll results don’t surprise me.
An unrelated rant: Let’s not get too carried away by the sample of desis in the US (assorted engineers/ doctors and the spelling bee champs) and assume that education is a big thing all across India. For a significiant portion of the desis in the US, their education has been their passport to success — and not surprisingly, educational accomplishments (including silly shows like the spelling bee) are a big deal.
India’s overall record as far as educational achievement is actually very, very depressing.
Did you know that India’s literacy rate is lower than Zimbabwe’s or Rwanda’s?
http://www.deeshaa.org/who-actually-paid-for-my-education/
Yes, it is not just the BPO thing but also a few factors of Visa regulations which could have been worse with kerry were to be in place. Bothways for once we fell for money and benefit than for principles. We would have to pay someday for this. May be the F-16s are a beginning of the payment.
I wouldn’t say that the 3 million who died in Bangladesh died b/c we were careless in a Daisy Buchanan kind of way. We knew what was going on, and we kept supporting the perpetrators. Given that this is one of the largest post WWII mass killings, that has to count for something …
Did you mean Tom Buchanan?
The heart of the problem here is illustrated by the way this whole debate has been framed: we’re invited to join the USA’s self-delusion that it’s the main thought on everyone’s mind from dawn to dusk. That it’s the richest, free-est, most democratic place in the world, that everybody wants to BE an American. Problem is, although Americans fondly BELIEVE all that crap… almost none of it is true. The USA is in hock up to its neck and beyond. Pretty much the ONLY thing the USA still leads the world in is…. military spending. Illegal Immigrants? Surely if people are desperate to get into the USA it MUST be some kind of paradise? At the height of Apartheid, South Africa had a serious problem with illegal ECONOMIC migrants., who foolishly believed that they’d have a better life in S. Africa. (And bear in mind the large number of emigrants from Byelorus, who in 1906 emigrated – in search of a better life – to SIBERIA) Since Reagan’s day, average white-collar incomes in the US have been falling. Blue collar incomes have fallen even faster. The already-very-rich have been getting richer (a LOT richer)and everybody else has been getting steadily poorer. The 20 year “trickle-down” experiment with Voodoo economics has produced more than enough evidence to demonstrate that “trickle down” doesn’t work. Maybe non-Americans are just smarter. They NOTICE these things. And – according to polls – the majority of them would turn down a Green Card if one was offered to them. Those who wouldn’t turn it down are generally the poor and the uneducated. That’s something of a paradox, as it’s the people who would turn the green card down who would do best (financially) from a move to the USA. The others are merely kidding themselves.
In 1850, about 55% of all world trade could be accounted for by the British Empire – as buyer, seller, or as both. In 2005, the “G8” represents a collection of rich nations who collectively control not much more than 40% of the world’s trade. When I hear the expression “World’s only remaining superpower”, I’m inclined to recall what it took to be a superpower in 1850. They sure don’t make ’em like they used to.