Between Mukhtar Mai and now this gal, it’s been a bad week for South Asian women –
An Indian rape victim is being forced by village elders to “marry” her rapist – her father-in-law, a newspaper reported on Wednesday. …Holding a special council on Sunday, village leaders ordered the mother of five to leave her husband, Noor Mohammed, and live with her parental family for seven months and 10 days and make herself “pure” again, reports said. It did not say how she becomes pure. After that, she must “marry” her father-in-law and live with him, along with his legal wife.
Freud would also have a field day with the Oedipal Complex this sick, twisted verdict sets up for her former husband, Noor –
“She… will then be like a mother to Noor Mohammed,” the local cleric Shamim Ahmad was quoted as saying.
The cops plan on intervening & arresting the father-in-law while somehow respecting the sensitivity of this religious situation. We’ll see.
Sick, sick, sick:
I find this unbelievable. What an insane rendition of Islamic Law. The State Government should step in.
Not to be a grammar nazi, but I think the correct usage is either simply ‘Oedipal’ or ‘Oedipus Complex’ but not ‘Oedipal Complex’. Correct me if I’m wrong. [/end of nitpick]
One more reason to bring about a common civil code in India. People assume that having different civil codes for different religions is actually benevolent towards the religions, but in reality religious personal laws are pretty archaic. Apart from politics, there’s no reason why we should not draft a common civil code that’s liberal and fair to all.
What Anil said. About the code, not the complex, that I don’t know.
But this also seems like it must be a particularly insane rendition of Islamic law. These things seem decreasingly like they’re about religion in any real sense and more like they’re about local petty groups trying to maintain their power.
Anyone headed to the Sakhi Parade in Jackson Heights this weekend- I encourage S. Asian men to go.
This happened in Uttar Pradesh. So its unlikely there is much the govt can do. The electoral balance is such that parties wont risk hurting “minority sentiments” or else they will lose votes. taking strict action will lead to riots and lead to incidents like gujrat.
Yep, we need common civil code or more appropriately common sense civil code. But the psuedo secularists wont let that happen either.
I am curious to know if this is what Islamic Law says must be done. Can someone enlighten?
I found these details on the Sakhi website for anyone who’s interested in going:
It’s important how you get there, though, if its truly in the interests of women (and other people) rather than simply a tool for the Hindu right. Check out this abstract (excerpt below).
How callous can you get?!!!
Its the truth isnt it? Minorities do not want to be subjected to law of the land if it contradicts their religious rules, however archaic, discriminatory or meaningless they may be.Why else do u think a common civil code doesnt exist?
I am not being callous, its the facts that are cruel.
I am curious to know if this is what Islamic Law says must be done. Can someone enlighten?
Under Islamic Law, the victim will have to prove that she was raped. If she can prove so, the rapist will be punished. In any case, there is no precedent for the ‘elders ruling’ in Islamic Law and the forced marriage here has no basis whatsoever in Islamic Law. It is pretty outrageous.
I dont see how having a Uniform Civil Code will rectify the problem. As I understand, criminal law matters in India are governed by a Uniform Federal Criminal Code anyway. So this case is outside the Sharia jurisdiction to begin with. It should be noted that the village elders dont have the authority to rule on personal matters either which would be governed by the Muslim Peronsal law in India. So in any case, these elders were acting on their own.
I personally dont favor the imposition of a Uniform Civil Code in India. India already has a Uniform Code for all criminal and civil issues. Personal laws like marriage, divorce, custody are still however governed by personal law. The civil libertarian in me believes that the Government should not be legislating on these issues anyway.
Well, I believe in those principles too, but I believe that a common law that is liberal and modern is better than personal laws that are restrictive and archaic.
The fact is that when you have a personal law then instead of the government, you have religion dictating to you. Unfortunately, while you can change laws enacted by the government, religion is rigid. Instead of having progressive laws on marriage, divorce adoption etc, people have to rely on laws based on social practices that are centuries old. These personal laws do not increase your liberty, they decrease them. How can a common civil code that has modern laws regarding marriage, divorce etc limit your freedom any more than the archaic personal laws you have now?
Just to state an example, did you know that Muslims and Christians cannot legally adopt children in India?
Sometimes I think the real issue is not about principles but something more… primal. All non-muslim dudes are jealous that this system allows muslim men to have 4 wives(since the koran says so) but they cant. The muslims ofcourse want to have their 4 begums 🙂
On a more serious note, this crazy insistance on sticking to 7th century Arabian rules in 21st century India is very difficult to defend. Also a constitution that says all men are equal cannot selectively differentiate based on religion, no matter what some fanatics want.
well, some have pointed out that the uniform civil code would be biased toward ‘hindu law.’ myself, i think that such problems can be rectified once it is agreed that all are equal under the same law.
There are compromise positions too that might resolve some of the ideological problems with having multiple laws for multiple people while at the same time maintaining protections for disempwoered communities (like minorities). Hate crime law in American society is a good example of something that falls in between uniform law and group-specific law–it applies to everyone (so if a Black man beat up a White man yelling honkee, he might be prosecuted) but it’s far more likely that the law is going to address hate crimes against minorities because that’s who msot of the hate crimes are directed against.
It’s a good way to spearate the wheat from the chaff among opponents of laws to protect specific communities of people because they’re being targeted–the reasoning of the opponents often shows whether they’re legitimately interested in what they’re talking about or it’s just a mask for anti-minority sentiments.
i recognize–even with my limited knowledge of desi law–that these are very different situations, but I just wanted to make the point htat there are ways to address this that fall sort of in between.
With instances such as these, our primal instinct is allocate blame based on our biases.
Let’s face it, we weren’t inculcated in bias at home, but we grew up to be biased against Islam due to negative images that we associate with this institution.
And similarly we associated Islam with this senseless situation.
But Al Mujahid’s provides a sane perspective. True, it is not the religion, it is the people that pervert the system. It could have been Hindus or Sikhs or Christians in that village, and they may have done the same, and then resorted to ‘religious context’ for interpretation of their actions.
But going back to Al Mujahid’s distaste for a uniform civil code; for longterm wellbeing of the nation, discriminatory rules will have to go. If any aspect of uniform civil law is deemed unfair then there are courts and collective wisdom always.
Certain personal liberties have to be sacrificed in the interest of the larger good. For instance, I cannot insist on ganja to be legalized because it restricts my personal liberty.
Muslims and Christians cannot legally adopt children in India?
Curious then, that I know several Muslims who have adopted in India, all wealthy. One law for the rich, one law for the poor — no common civil code there.
I think a common civil code is a wonderful idea, but it ought to be preceded by a common non-religious Indian identity. As soon as there is a near universal consensus in India that religion does not matter, that intermarriage is no big deal, and that Hindus need not feed Muslims off of plastic plates (as a commentor a SM advocated recently), I’d support a civil code.
But on the list of important Indian priorities, like povery, illiteracy, colour bigotry, and being an open-air toilet, the civil code (which only applies to inheritance, divorce, and other private amtters) ought to be pretty low. ONe wonders at the motivations of those who so vehemently advocate it — is it truly out of a progressive concern for the worst off among us? Use of the terms ‘minority vote bank’ and ‘pseudosecularist’ doesn’t bolster their cause.
Oh yeah, that could be pretty soon – like the 31st century.
Methinks there is some amount of economic causality why religion is still a big deal in India. Maybe with improving economic prosperity in India, the religious situation may change for the better.
Religion will matter immaterial the material. Religion is the opium of the masses.
Ikram, truth is look at Spain, when last of the moor sighed, the country ventured to new horizons. India needs to have it’s spiritual reconquistida. Sanskritize the spirit of the nation, while anglicize the econonmy. Chop the glans and unsheath the tools of progress. Uncommon civil code is part of that glans.
The case is more complex. Read here about the latest developments where a more complex case seems to be unfolding. There is no spoon.
Wow.
It is extremely interesting to read so many comments about so many different diverse issues.
My name is Anthony and I live in Phoenix, Arizona. U.S.
I’m doing a study for my Masters in Economic Crime. Currently I am focusing my studies on “Offshoring” or the use of BPO’s by U.S. companies.
I am finding out a lot about India and how diverse it is. The many different business, political and personal issues I’ve read about are so interesting.
Since I’m on here…I’ll ask for everyone’s comments.
I’ve read about some events relating to economic crimes perpetrated by employees of BPO’s, but not that many (which is good).
I’ve also come to the conclusion that India (as a country) does not have detailed laws to protect things such as; Privacy, Trade Secrets, Intellectual Property. Nor does it have laws that can be used to prosecute Identity Theft, Credit Card theft…etc.
I’ve read a lot of material and I know there are probably some laws that issues , such as these, could be prosecuted under (i.e. ITA 2000) but they are not necessarily laws that are specific to the infraction.
With this, I’ve gained a lot of respect for India and its ability to be so successful in it’s offshoring initiatives. Especially surprised that there are so few noted cases of actual fraud and theft within the BPO industry.
I can probably attribute a lot of this to a high moral standard within India, but I don’t want to assume this. I want to hear from those within India, what they feel contributes to this. (?)
I would love to hear some thoughts on why you feel this is.
Also, if you feel my assumption is wrong and there are more instances of Economic Crime than what is being reported, please let me know.
My goal is to get an honest view of how someone from India feels about this issue.
Thank you.
Anthony Phoenix, AZ USA
Well, now I feel bad. I really had no idea that this blog was part of a larger site until I started clicking around. Nor did I realize it was specifically dedicated to discuss the Rape issue.
…Which I feel is horribly wrong, but since I’m not from India nor do I know anything about Islamic Law, I’ll keep my mouth shut on that one.
Anyways…if my prior post gets “de-posted”… I will understand.
Thanks.
Anthony
This is not a small issue but this happens virtually everyday in places such as pakistan india and bangladesh. the problem being that the women(victim) who has been raped will not get no support even the police weill aree that she should marrige the rapist to not bring shame on the small community village a major problem within the hindu community (not that im blaming religon). I myself am from a Indian origon (Punjab) so i am not being in anyways racist or trying to offend anyone or anyone’s beleifs but i feel that unless strict laws are set in place by superiors (Ministers, Preists, Councillers etc) this problem will continue. We live in a modern era in the west and we dont get this stuff happening because we obide by the law and follow the law (well most of us), and in places such as india pakistan and bangladesh, the police are corrupt and so are the ministers of parliment.
Funny how religion creates these fucked up situations…if they weren’t religious they would have no reason to think that a rape victim should marry her rapist. Stupid fucking sheep.
women are really just chaotic beings. they all bitch whenever they feel injustice. i wonder what this rape was. she probably was just being a slut and got caught, now a bunch of western feminists are getting their panties in a knot. i fwomen really cared they would do something, but they don’t really care about anybody but themselves, that is why they just bitch and complain, but never change anything. inferior, they are, and will always be.
The above comment needs to be deleted PRONTO!
Anna, are you on it?
The above comment needs to be deleted PRONTO!
Anna, are you on it?