Two militants from Babbar Khalsa have been arrested and charged with the Jo Bole So Nihaal film bombings. Two others are still being sought:
… the Delhi Police today arrested two activists of the Babbar Khalsa militant outfit allegedly responsible for the crime and claimed to have recovered one kg RDX, Rs 2.94 lakh cash and two kgs of gold… [Outlook India]
The extremist group, previously thought to be nearly defunct, was accused of planning the Air India bombing in 1985 and assassinating Punjab Chief Minister Beant Singh with a suicide bomber in 1995. The U.S. added Babbar Khalsa to its list of terrorist groups only last year:
Many leaders of the Babbar Khalsa, who are on India’s most-wanted list, are now based in Pakistan… [NDTV]The militants had been in constant touch with Wadhwa Singh, the Pakistan-based chief of Babbar Khalsa International… [Outlook India]
The suspects seem to have learned from Al Qaeda tactics. They allegedly used plastic explosives to evade metal detectors and cavities in running shoes to smuggle the easily-molded explosives. Like the 9/11 hijackers, they allegedly plotted in a country away from the target, one perceived to have lax security. And there’s the ubiquitous Pakistan connection:
Balvinder and Jaspal had travelled to Bangkok on April 22 and met one Shahid to discuss about terrorist activities to be carried out. Though it was not yet clear which group Shahid was affiliated with, several militant groups operating in Jammu and Kashmir had been using Bangkok as a base lately. [Outlook India]Police Commissioner K K Paul said they smuggled in the two detonators, two timers and wires in their underwear while the plastic explosives were carried in sports shoes. The explosives, possibly RDX, was in the form of four sheets wrapped in polythene which were kept in sports shoes which they had bought specifically for the operation…
On the day of the attack… the foursome came to the Liberty cinema hall in two cars, a Tata Sierra and a Hyundai Santro… The Sierra had special cavities to hide the explosives… Jaspal, Balvinder and Vikas entered Liberty while Jagannath waited outside. Jaspal prepared the bomb inside the toilet and gave it to Balvinder and Vikas who placed it under a seat in the front stall. Jaspal left the hall before the interval and the other two just afterwards. All four then went to Satyam where Jaspal and Jagannath went inside and placed the bomb in the toilet before exiting, Paul said. [Outlook India]
How the suspects were identified:
While the two suspects of Liberty blast had left the cinema hall even as the movie was on, the suspects of Satyam explosion had been sighted near the toilet carrying a black bag. [HT]More than 200 policemen had been devoted to the investigation who chased leads in the city, Uttar Pradesh and Punjab… Paul said the entire scene of the crimes had been reconstructed with the help of inputs from wounded persons and cinema hall employees. “Individuals were identified as to how they were seated. We also tried to find out whether tickets had been purchased singly or in groups,” he said. [Outlook India]
One of the suspect’s families says he was about to get married:
Balwinder’s family denies any involvement with any banned outfit. They say he had been trying to go abroad… “We were making preparations for his wedding. The Delhi Police beat his in my presence. I don’t believe he did anything wrong,” said Bhajan Kaur, Balwinder’s mother. [NDTV]
Pakistan allegedly boosted its support for militants after Kargil:
… as the border tension between India and Pakistan escalates over Kargil, the state most affected is Punjab where reviving militancy is one of the ISI’s main tasks. The Nawaz Sharief government set up the Pakistan Gurdwara Prabhandhak Committee early this year in an attempt to woo Sikhs in Pakistan. The PGPC is now headed by Lieutenant General (retired) Javed Nasir, who earlier headed the ISI in Islamabad.In the last two weeks, intelligence agencies and the Signals Intelligence Department of the army have intercepted several telephone calls made by ISI agents… to leaders of the militant groups in India. Official sources said the ISI has made contact with extinct militant groups in Punjab like the Khalistan Zindabad Force, Khalistan Command Force and Babbar Khalsa International. Calls have also been made to the outlawed insurgent outfit United Liberation Front of Asom and religious fundamentalist groups in Tamil Nadu and Kerala. [Rediff]
Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) is employing new strategies to revive militancy in Punjab and putting pressure on the remaining militants to “undertake some sensational terrorist actions”… A Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF) activist Keval Singh Rajput… reportedly told his interrogators that he was sent with instructions to cause explosions at public places in Punjab… Intelligence agencies have also discovered recent emergence of narco-terrorism with growing nexus between people involved in smuggling of drugs and Punjab militants…
Pointing out to the appointment of former chief of ISI as President of Pakistan Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (PGPC) [Sikh temple committee], the sources said “the brazen move has obviously undermined the prestige of Sikh clergy in Pakistan who actually had the right to assume the job.” [Deccan Herald]
Previous post here.
Well at least there wasn’t an “encounter” and then a dislpay of a shitload of weapons these terrorists happen to carry everywhere with them with all the hypocrisy that follows.
Bastards.
The trouble-making psycho’s in Pakistan who are involved in this are bastards too.
Oh please! Yet another case of the nefarious foreign hand? Is there anyone else out there that has a hard time buying this crap?
Gurpreet
ISI involvment in encouraging various extremist groups in India is well documented. It is not inconceivable that they were involved in some way with these bombings logistically. Either way, I dont believe true Sikhs would involve themselves in such a crime. It is well within reason to suggest the involvment of the Pakistani security agency. After all, why is the former head of the ISI appointed as the head of the Pakistani Gurdwara commitee? That is an insult. That would be like putting a Sikh in charge of all the mosques in India. It is a nonsense. So what is Pakistans reasoning?
Why should any Sikh group aim to re-activate the horror of the 1980’s? This is an evil and lunatic act. But to the intelligence agencies in Pakistan, it is a joyous and happy act.
“Why should any Sikh group aim to re-activate the horror of the 1980’s? This is an evil and lunatic act. But to the intelligence agencies in Pakistan, it is a joyous and happy act”
I agree. How much easier is it to tarnish India, cause havoc and destabalize society? By encouraging terrorist groups to infiltrate and by providing encouragement to the goals of these groups. It is high time that Pakistan is outright and clearly assigned this label of encouragement. Not just to these Punjabi militants but for helping Al Qaeda by propping up the Taliban.
How the HELL can these guys be an ally of the United States? Please, someone make sense of this.
During the Cold War, Pakistan was allied with the United Sates, India was allied with the Soviet Union.
Then again during the cold war the Taliban and Saddam Hussien were also allied with the United States.
Exactly right. I knew the historical facts, I was asking for making sense of any of it. India and Pakistan (in their view) are antithetical to one another. The rising star of one means the diminishing of the other. It still does not make sense that India-Soviet Union and U.S.-Pakistan were or continue to be allies. It is absolutely pragmatic, of course. Not ethical nor sensible in terms of ideology, what we wish to embody and our values. Though I do appreciate that the now government of Russia encouraged India’s membership into the UN Security Council. Old “friendships” continue, eh?
classic values versus interest conundrum.
The Pakistanis are here to say.The sikhs in india and hindus should unite fight these bastards in pakistan who want to take us back to 1980s and early 90s militancy era.Let india grow and don’t take it back on the path of war.The intelligence should be tightened and what kps gill and beant singh did to eliminate them i.e. just kill them because they are made psychphants and there only cure is to kill them. Jai Hind
Can any educated person believe annoucements from the Punjab police? If I recall correctly, wasn’t it the practive of the Babbars to proudly announce they had engaged in a bombing or other terrorist activity? This sounds very fishy.
With regard to the “Pakistan did it” cord, please keep in mind that the Sikhs who engaged in armed resistance to the Indian state did so of their own accord. Yes Pakistan helped them, they willingly fought the Indian state based on their experience in the Indian state.
Two cultural anthropologists, Joyce Pettigrew, in “The Sikhs of the Punjab : Unheard Voices of State and Guerilla Violence,” and Cynthia Keppley, in “Fighting for Faith and Nation: Dialogues with Sikh Militants,” interviewed Sikh resistance fighters (in part) on their motivation for taking up arms. Their responses make clear that the fighters were motivated by the abuses of the Indian state. They also make clear the Pakistan assisted that effort.
Unfortunately, since India never allowed Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch or academics or other non-partisan actors to freely conduct studies of the on the ground situation in Punjab during militancy, I’m wary of people who authoritatively try to put forth some sort of universal truth about what happened in Punjab during this period. Most of the indiginous human rights activists were disappeared, so who know what was happening. The press and the judiciary were blindly nationalistic during this period as well (with regard to the judiciary, read “Judicial Blackout” a law review article in the Harvard Human Rights Journal: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss15/kaur.shtml). Lots of state institutions were responsible for the situation which led to armed resistance. All those institutions were Indian. To blame Pakistan without acknowleging the cause betrays a significant bias.
I say all this only to provide some context for my statement that at the beginning of this post that anything that comes from the Punjab Police has little value.
Professor Pettigrew’s book is available at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1856493563/qid=1117599102/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/002-7650849-8560802?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Professor Mahmoud’s book is available at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812215923/qid=1117599570/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-1485442-0307923?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Both books are serious, sober reviews of the militancy in Punjab and its origins. I highly recommend them.
Ah, now I understand why Deeshaa.org gets to be Indiblog of the year. If the cynicism of people of South Asian origin is anything to go by it all makes perfect sense. So let’s get this straight – the Police find out who did the dirty and arrest them, and so now we turn on the police and say it’s all fabricated. I’m curious, what kind of a world do you people live in?
anangbhai – what proof do you have that encounters have been faked other than the from the same media reports which report the encounters in the first place?
Gurpreet – yes I totally believe in the “Foreign Hand”. After 9/11, the fucking Pakis have got a shitload of money, aid, military hardware from BushMonkey…. oh of course all of that was used only to fight terrorists, I mean there’s no chance it could have been diverted towards Pakistan’s own nasty goals, could it?
epoch – India was initially not an ally of the Soviet Union. It was a part of the now mostly defunct (and pretty dumb, IMO) Non-Aligned Movement, with other such reputable countries like Yugoslavia…)
It was the regular BushMonkey attitude – “Either you’re with us or against us” that caused India to gravitate towards USSR in the first place.
Amar, whatever the causes were for the rise of Militancy in Punjab, it was the motherfucking terrorists which were responsible for my cousin losing his left leg in a failed bomb blast on a bus. And he had nothing to do with the “Indian institutions” responsible. I don’t remember the Indian authroities placing bombs in buses. So fuck the motherfucking terrorists – they were the biggest violators of human rights. If they wanted to change things they could have done it without blowing up innocent people. India is a democracy, believe it or not, and if they had the balls to fight peacefully, they could have done so, but they didn’t. They made their choice, and I hope the motherfuckers suffer painful deaths for it.
Without knowing too much about this, I feel pretty safe saying that their governments in some sense need each other. Pakistan’s radicals need “India” as a way to distract from the lack of democracy in Pakistan the way that the protofascists in the US need the threat of more terrorist attacks like the ones in 2001 to scare the $hit out of the people and get, for a time, whatever they want (domestically and in foreign policy) out of a complacent Congress, press, and populace. But Indian nationalists might need Pakistan as a bogey man just as much to keep building missiles. They might hate each other, but the ISI and Indian nationalists have a mutually beneficial relationship built on stoking fear, militarization, etc.
Haven’t any of you ever seen Star Trek VI, the Undiscovered Country? 🙂
In any case, kitsch aside, the way to combat the circle jerk of national elites and the hate they create is not to “just kill them because they are made psychphants” regardless of who the “psychphants” in quesiton are but to build real democracy and a culture of civility, tolerance, and individual empowerment. Jai Freedom.
It’s also probably best to not assume that Pakistan’s government is responsible for everything bad that happens in India without even the hint of evidence, although, like I said, I don’t know all that much about these issues, so I’m willing to be schooled on this.
Incidentally, “India” and “Pakistan” are legal fictions and have no feelings of any kind.
/end sanctimony
Amar
Congratulations to those ‘freedom fighters’ who blew up cinemas and killed innocent people! I suppose to people like you the man who was killed in the cinema was a legitimate target! It was an Indian institution after all. I suppose he was collateral damage right?
What I hate most is that these scumbags besmirch the Sikh religion, which is one of bravery, not one of sticking bombs in cinemas and running away. What cowardice! What a stain on Sikhism! They can hardly call themselves true Sikhs. This is the mindset of Al-Qaeda and RSS scumbags. Kill the innocents, all violence is justified. Talk about dragging Sikhism down into the dirt.
In the whole Pak hand thing … yesterday on Daily show there was this guy who wrote a book on the US- Saudi connection. He was saying that all 4 people that Abu Zubeida (Al-Queda operative caught in Pak last year) named got killed in mysterious circumstances. The Pak Air force chief who was named by Zubeida got blown up in the air.
Pakistan has long been the center of International terrorism. The reason it is because it has this question about its purpose of existing (cant find a real identity and as a result become radicalized)
My post simply pointed out that blaming Pakistan for Sikh militancy is disingenious given the well-documented legacy of murder, rape, torture, and disappearances perpetrated by the Indian state. In no way did it justify or condone terrorism.
The reaction to simply pointing out that India violates human rights — connecting those who raise human rights to terrorists, blind knee jerk defense of India as a democracy — is a classic example of putting the blinders on.
My guess is that none of the blind nationalists who responded defensively to my post have ever read any of the reports from Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Physicians for Human Rights, Committee for the Coordination of Disappeances in Punjab, South Asian Forum for Human Rights Forum, and the like.
For those who are willing to approach these subjects objectively and gather all the facts, in addition to the works I cited in my first post, I would suggest starting with the following: http://www.punjabjustice.org/.
It chronicles an intiative that began when the Indian Supreme Court’s directed India’s National Human Rights Commission to investigate over 2,097 disappearances of Sikhs at the hands of Indian “security forces” (i.e. death squads) in just three crematoria in Amritsar district alone (note Punjab has 14 districts).
The website also includes the full text of a 631 page report from the Committee for Information and Initiative in Punjab, called “Reduced to Ashes.” A section of the report provides summaries of 513 testimonies, implicating 672 cases of disappearances in these three crematoria in Amritsar district: http://www.punjabjustice.org/report/report.htm
Page through the summaries. It will give better context for my assertion that simply blaming Pakistan for militancy in Punjab is disingenuous.
Finally I am sorry to hear about the poster’s relative who is severely injured as a result of a bombing in Punjab. I wish Punjab was a place where we could trust the police’s version of events so that we could get behind the truth of everything that happened in Punjab. Allowing groups like Amnesty International to freely (not surrepititiously) conduct investigations would certainly help. All the victims, of state and militant violence, deserve at least that much.
Amar – My guess is that u r a sardar who has lived outside India all his life.
As for as my experience goes , for some inexplicable reason Sikhs who live outside India have your sort of opinions while no Sikh in India thinks on these lines. Must be the result of some sort of indoctrination or brainwashing that goes on in the expatriate community.
U must realise that any incident can be looked at from many perspectives, and urs is one extreme viewpoint.
Amar, You are wasting your time with these people. They havnt heard of novelties like human rights, due process of law and the rest. When you live in a third world jungle, you live by jungle law.
Red Snapper, You said “What I hate most is that these scumbags besmirch the Sikh religion, which is one of bravery, not one of sticking bombs in cinemas and running away. What cowardice! What a stain on Sikhism! They can hardly call themselves true Sikhs. This is the mindset of Al-Qaeda and RSS scumbags.”
I have never heard of RSS people setting up bombs in Movie theatres. What actions of RSS were you referring to ?
My post simply pointed out that blaming Pakistan for Sikh militancy is disingenious given the well-documented legacy of murder, rape, torture, and disappearances perpetrated by the Indian state.
Excellent comment Amar. I find it particularly funny that Aten accuses you of having an “extreme viewpoint” when its pretty obvious who the “extreme” one is.
Based on anecdotal experience in Canada.
Sikhs who emigrated to Canada in the seventies and their children tend to support Sikh militancy and the Khalistan movement far more than the more recent arrivals.
Perhaps thats indicative of an improvement in the treatment of Sikhs in India in the last 30 – 40 years.
The timing of this attack really dosen’t make sense to me.
Why bomb a movie theater 40 years after the tensions have died down and at a time when the country has a sikh prime minister ?
In the same vein, I think it’s also important to note Manish’s comment regarding Al Qaeda & Pakistan is spec., the connection is Bangkok, tactics, explosives & detonating devices, which can link the bombings to any number of organizations, including Pakistan, Osama, etc.. Yes, there is chatter about Pakistan “wooing” Sikhs, but:
I have never heard of RSS people setting up bombs in Movie theatres. What actions of RSS were you referring to ?
Right, and that elicits the question: Would they really align themselves with extremists who choose such a politically obtuse target? Given all the warming between India and Pakistan, if they wanted to cause a diversionary-ruckus, seems to me they’d choose a target that would cause a longer-lasting political crisis.
Amar: It’s unclear what your lack of faith in the Punjab police amounts to: Do you think they planted the bombs in the cinemas ? Or do you think they arrested the wrong suspects ? Or both ?
Just what do you base your skepticism on, other than the human rights violations of Punjabi (mainly Sikh, btw) police in the late 80’s ? If it’s solely the former, I’m afraid that won’t do: This isn’t the late 80’s. A lot has changed, from the personnel to the overall situation in Punjab.
I’ve not read Pettigrew’s book but I found Keppley’s book nauseating in its moral equivalence between the GOI and the terrorists. This stance may well be purely methodolgical on Keppley’s part, so I am not suggesting that Keppley actually believes there is such a moral equivalence. But a significant number of readers don’t make such a distinction.
Look, no one doubts that the security forces in Punjab committed human rights violations. However, your comments downplay the horrific violations carried out by Sikh terrorists: Laments, en passant, about terrorist atrocities won’t do, I’m afraid.
Perhaps you’ll draw a distinction between ‘state terrorism’ and that carried out by Sikh terrorists. I’ll simply say that such distinctions don’t hold when the state’s writ is effectively countered by that of the terrorists.
Far more importantly, Punjabis (both Sikh and Hindu) didn’t buy this argument even during the height of the govt.’s CI-ops. It was large-scale disgust with Sikh terrorists that effectively ended the secessionist movement in Punjab.
Kumar
I agree with SD. We can be fairly confident that this act was committed by Babbar Khalsa International. It is an act of terrorism by Sikhs. It’s the simplest explanation and the only logical one. (It is also what I was saying last week, though I think I was the only one.)
All reference to Pakistan, the ISI, or Kashmiri militants is pure speculation. Even if these people bought their stuff from someone from Pakistan, in the end they are the ones responsible for killing those people.
Also, any reference to the events of the 1980s is completely irrelevant. Though questions about human rights abuses by the Indian military remain (and I am sympathetic to Ram Narayan Kumar and associates), it is a completely separate issue. This act of terrorism has nothing to do with it.
Al Mujahid
By referring to the RSS and Al Qaeda I was bracketing the fanatacism of the Babbar Khalsa types with those of other religious extremist organisations who view it as good duty to kill in the name of their religious cause.
Kumar
How nauseated are you by the pogroms in which thousands of Sikhs were killed in 1984 by the Congress Government in ‘revenge’ for Indira Gandhi’s assassination (in effect the Indian State)?
Here is the news Kumar, the biggest acts of mass murder and slaughter with impunity in the last twenty years have been carried out by ‘democratically’ elected politicians of the Indian State (1984, 1992 post Ayodhya, 2002 Gujarat)
As nauseating as an apologist for terrorism might make you, (and it does nauseate me) I am equally nauseated by the fatuous and disgusting complacency of those who give the political establishment who engage in genocidal murder of minority communities in riots a free pass so that they dont have to be incovenienced by ugly truths about the ugly rotting horrific nature of power and politics in the Indian Republic and its crimes.
What can we do about the various pogroms and large scale slaughter of innocents commited by Indian State agencies in Gujarat, Delhi and Bombay? Any ideas?
Amar is wrong in this instance. It is the Babbar Khalsa type, probably abetted by Pakistan, who carried out the crime, and it is separate from what happened in the 1980’s. But he is right about how the responses of people who equate criticising the crimes of the Indian State with being apologists for terrorism are actually morally neutered and blind.
red snapper:
I thought my contempt for human rights violations pretty plain, whatever their source. If you need to excoriate people for their alleged sins, please do be specific. Certainly nothing that I’ve written should suggest that I am an apologist for the misdeeds of the GOI.
And for the record, I don’t need you to educate me on the sorry record of, say, the Congress govt. in Delhi during the Sikh massacre or Modi’s reign in Gujarat. I am well aware of Indian history. Indeed, as a Kashmiri Pandit, I can ill afford ignorance about these issues.
I could play ‘turnabout’ on you and suggest that your ‘silence’ about the plight of Kashmiri Pandits amounts to an apologia for Islamist terrorism. But, unlike you, I don’t specialize in cheapshots. More to the point, of course, nothing you’ve actually written suggests you’re an apologist for Islamist terror. But for the sake of others who may be reading this exchange, I’ll point out that the complaceny and silence about the plight of our community is also a moral scandal, something which should concern all Indians.
What do you propose to do about our plight ? And, please, spare me the fatuous excrescence of the Wagah-candle-lighter crowd. Any ideas ?
Kumar
red snapper:
I also did not “…equate criticising the crimes of the Indian State with being apologists for terrorism…”. Rather, I specifically critcized Amar for doing just that based on his selective outrage. And mentioning the terrorism inflicted by Sikh militants in passing doesn’t redress the imbalance in his post.
To repeat the obvious, I commented on Amar’s post–I don’t indulge in scattershot comments. There is nothing in my post suggesting a blanket condemnation of any criticism of the GOI. Read before you post.
Kumar
Kumar
Plenty of cheap shots there. And you didnt answer a single one of my questions. So it seems that you are not averse to cheap shots yourself 😉
Well, I might not like what terrorists do, but I can understand, if not agree with, I can at least understand why some people draw comparisons between terrorists and the state ‘terrorism’ of the Indian State. The only way to deny this is through providing justice for the victims and proving that the State is morally superior and also never allowing it to happen again.
Unfortunately, the Indian State has proven to be like an incontinent who cant help pissing himself, except he pisses pogroms and doesnt clean up the mess.
Lets get all the terrorists, and then get the MURDERING BASTARDS in government too.
But its not going to happen, and that is why people will make moral equivalences, leading to vomiting by nauseated people like you.
What to do about the Pundits? Well, in the old days, it was one of the Sikh Gurus who gave up his life to save the Kashmiri Pandits from being converted by torture to Islam, but things are such that you dont stand much chance of ever being back into the Valley in a long time, and there are no Guru Tegh Bahadus any more. So it doesnt look good for the Pandits, I have to say.
red snapper:
“…you didnt answer a single one of my questions…”
Writing that doesn’t make it so. I demolished your central argument that criticism of Amar amounted to an apologia for the misdeeds of the GOI.
About the rest of your ‘questions’: I thought them rhetorical window-dressing for your outrage. So I didn’t bother ‘answering’ them. But I’ll take them at face value now: The answer is the slow and dogged pursuit of justice within the Indian system. It’s imperfect, of course, but all we have, I’m afraid. And, certainly, a damn sight better than many other countries.
I see by your insouciant response to the plight of Kashmiri Pandits that you’re not a serious fellow, after all. I hadn’t thought it possible, but your ‘answer’ actually makes the Wagah types look good!
Kumar
The whole “Sikh minority and victim” thing doesnt hold up against reality. Reality is Sikh PM, Sikh Chief of Army staff, Sikhs in prominent positions in academia, sports and Business apart from the silly joke thing Sikh culture enjoys tremendous reverance all throughout India ….. Inspite of all these if someone claims they are victims for a being a minority … what more do they want ???
I am yet to see what happened to all those who jumped immediately to blame ISI and Islamists for this. There were a bunch of people who jumped the gun a few hours after the bombing right on this site even when there were direct connections with Sikh groups – well, it is easy to blame them and get away, isn’t it? Btw, I don’t have anything except utter contempt for Islamist politics (this is obligatory, before I get nasty responses about me being an apologist for muslim fundamentalism)
Dear rc, The fact:-Indians were victims of British colonialism……just because you have Indians rising to top notch positions in Britain today doesnt take away from this fact. Similarly, at one point,in not too remote past,the Sikhs were victims of communal politics played by the Indian establishment…the fact we have a Sikh PM and Army Chief etc today cannot belie this fact….lol,we had a Sikh head of state for god sake when 1984 riots took place and the Indian state,by acts of commision or omission or both,connived to try and butcher an entire community….
Sir,like millions of Indians,you are not communal but like millions of Indians,you get taken in by the lies and the propaganda of the Indian state…..kinda like how so many of Pakistanis i meet are pretty nice people but are just blinded by the anti-india propaganda of their establishment…..
I know there are communities who have been meted out much more cruel treatment by their fellow beings(jews,the kurds,for that matter,the dalits in india)…..I also know that most Indians probably do not have any malice/hatred towards Sikhs…..however,that does not mean that the riots of 1984 did not happen or there were not unimaginable excesses in Punjab against the Sikh youth during the days of militancy and that the state of India does nothing to prevent the constant barrage of communal slurs against the Sikhs in public life(the sardarji jokes in countless movies)….its the state of India which has to assume the responsibility for these things and it does not…….translate that into “Sikhs were victims of state tyranny”.The fact.
Clarifications 1.Have never and will never support any act of terror…. 2.No I am not a Sikh who was born out of India.I was in Delhi in 1984,then in Punjab during the heydays of militancy… 3.Its time we start making a distinction between Indian ‘people’ and the Indian ‘state’.The ‘state’ at times has taken the ‘people’ for a ride (pretty much every state does)…..I am sure many here would agree that we cannot equate the two…..
I’m not one to whine all that much about victimhood and such, but the whole Sikh PM thang wasn’t the result of a popular vote. Manmohan Singh was installed as PM after Sonia Gandhi won the popular vote and then renounced the PM post due to the outcry by Hindu nationalists. I wonder how it would’ve all played out had Manmohan Singh been on the ballot.
For one thing, they might want the justice that’s been denied to them for the past 20 yrs.
Then again if the people weren’t amenable to it there would be a hue and cry about that as well. At the end of the day I think people just want a person who they think will serve them (and in their view the nation) well. And I guess Manmohan Singh does have a good track record.
Anyways I never got why Sikhs would want a separate state, when most Sikhs I have known have always come across as extremely patriotic Indians. So many of them serving the nation in the Armed forces and whatnot. Anyways hoping for better days for India.
Two of the 4 bombers are Hindu… Vikas and JaganNath??? How in the world did two Hindu dudes become Khalastani militants?
Kumar
You didnt demolish anything but the cookie you were holding in your hand. Keep fantasising. Your slithering shifty logic gives me the creeps, in conjuction with your fantasies of ‘demolishing’ my arguments, it make you an extremely comic and funny figure.
😉
noFixedAddress and Gurpreet, I think based on your comments I think you should be appaled at the victimization of Palestanians. See they dont have rights to even enter areas that once belonged to them without getting checked. Israel will never have an Arab Chief of Army Staff too .. I think all can agree on that !! What about the so called oppression of the Indian state against Kashmiris. They should get their own state (using Pakistan’s help) too.
Amar Sir, Your points i’ll answer very calmly but first please open your mind,open it don’t close it by fanatic views .The things that you have been told by whosover i don’t know but are distorted and wrong by my point of view veere.although i admit human rights atrocities were done but i tell u they were bare min. MAIN IK PUNJABI HINDU AAAN.I live in Punjab.I have seen the militancy if not the operation bluestar.I don’t have anything against sikhs.My friends are sikhs,my family relatives are sikhs.I am not trying to prove that i ams so called secular.I want to tell India is multiethnic multicultural multi religious society built on these lines in from its history.When bhindrawala stood for congress first then turned against,same osama-u.s. connection, goes up to amritsar,ludhiana kills a hindu religious leader and a nirankaree leader and tells that we have proclaimed to build Khalistan,a sikh state what the bullshit.These people who stand ones own countryshould be butchered.I believe sikh riots were wrong totally with you,but i see it was best when these bastards like bhindrawala were killed.They were told to surrender first but they didn’t.If they were so fearless why did they hid behind darbar sahib,Brother u don’t know how these militants killed people by stopping buses and killing them .Have i as a hindu started hating sikhs,no because i beleive some assholes defame the society.The most imp. reason was also of economic the unemployement in punjab was on a high,and also green reveolution effect was over.The government failed on this front.And thse unemployed people were the real ground terrorists.Brother about amnesty international ask them what happens when sikhs are attacked in u.s and canada when their turbans are taken to be those resembling the muslims,espesially in the conservative states.Does anyone having a turban is attacked in india,anyone having a no moustache and a beard attacked in india,NOOOOO!! American presidents have all been white catholics,noone else see there history i’m not so sure about catholics though but heard it so if anyone can correct me. Brother Hindustan sab kaa hai hindus kaa sikhs kaa chrishtians kaa aur muslims kaa but till a point they don’t break the communal harmony but sory to say it has happened so you can’t blame the whole society u got to blame human,we,we make the society. Jai Hind
nofixedaddress u hear saradrjee jokes but u don’t hear the baniya’s image being demolished in songs and jokes .U.P> hindus and bihar hindus called bhaiyas and ridiculed upon.What u say?? Brother i was also there in 1984 noit in delhi but in sangrur. Sikh youts were missing were less killed by the “so called encounters ” told by ajit singh bains president of the self established punjab human rights commisssion but were unemployed and were lured by the incentives and money given by the babbar khalsa.They went for training in pakistan money came from canadian sikhs( iam not saying all of them but some of them). Gurpreet veere i agree the problem on sikhs was the the sajjan-kumar was not prosecuted in the anti-sikh riots case totally agreed it inflamed sikh sentiments. Jai Hind
dear brothers-sisters vahe guru ji ka khalsa vahe guruji ki fateh. i just wanna say that the so called sikh terrorists are our martyrs . of course they were milead and betrayed by their leaders but they hailed guru sahib and laid their lives to avenge the atrocities commited by the political mada****ds . i bow to babbar martyrs i am a hindu jat but u know there is no difference coz i follow guru sahib and a sikh at heart and would not fear to take up an AK-47 if the community is threatened.
The Lakshae e toiba man arrested for mumbai blasts admitted to the delhi bombings were his groups work. Just like Jagtar Singh Hawara said he had not done or condoned the act of terror. Also he didnt know any of the 4 accused in the attack. Fukin sharade by the indian government and police forces