Shashwati reports backs from the protest against Modi at Madison Square Garden (photos here):
Among the anti-Modi and anti-Hindutva signs were some anti-Indian Army in Kashmir signs… the Kashmir folks had been piggybacking on the anti-Modi protest. They were politely banished to the other side of Seventh Avenue…The passersby hurried by in a typical New York rush, some holding up their fingers in a peace sign, without slowing down… Stan asked him if it was true that two thousand people had been killed, the man very matter of factly answered, “sometimes people needed to be disciplined and taught a lesson…” They looked like they had been herded by the more affluent Indians, who were the organizers of the show. Unlike the folks who had been bussed in, most of these people weren’t wearing a tilak, and were barking orders in their walkie-talkies, and generally looking self satisfied. I spoke to a woman in a leather jacket, I asked her what she thought of the proceedings, which she had been watching with an eagle eye, she answered with great unsmiling certainty, “Modi will be the next great leader.”
While she was chatting up the better heeled delegates, a man draped in a saffron shawl stood on top of the steps, not speaking to anyone and standing very still. He seemed to be committing every protestor’s face to memory… At that point a very large man in a trench coat and hat told me to clear the sidewalk. he was the detective in charge. He was the spitting image of Orson Welles in “A Touch of Evil.”
On my way home, I shared a bus ride with some middle aged Gujarati people who had gone to the event, they seemed like nice people. It was chilling to think that they were unmoved by the brutal killing of so many people…
‘Modi will be the next great leader’? Where do they find these people, under the same rock as David Duke groupies?
Where do they find these people..
All over the place.
Manish – whats the point of this? I agree Modi should be led off that CM’s chair but don’t you think there are other subjects to talk about. People opposed to him were successful in preventing his visit. So whats the point in putting on the same issues.
Unless you are a sponser member of CAG which would explain it. Is Sepia just a flaming blog? If you have something more substantive then it makes sense to put it, otherwise its rehash after rehash
I can’t speak for Manish, but I thought that Shashwati’s post (to which Manish refers) was a fascinating look at the Indian-Americans who support Modi. It was chilling and worth a post.
The point is the texture of the protest (first-person report and photos).
Thanks for the post, Manish. Rehash away b/c its not often that there are such victories for human rights groups. The photos are truly inspirational.
Modi will be the next great leader
If he continues to get this kind of international publicity he may very well be.
He may be on his way out because of internal politics in BJP with numerous BJP MLAs want him out because of his autocratic ways. (You heard it here first on this board). You guys can then claim that the US visa rejection started all this. In my opinion that would be a shame (america/americans claiming credit) – even though i want him to go.
Remember the natives hate other people minding their business and you can already see this in Iraq.
Yes to protest. No to foriegn meddling and this includes Indian Americans (unless ofcourse you get a dual citizenship)
We’d be happy to butt out of Indian politics as soon as you butt out of reading Sepia Mutiny, watching Kal Penn movies and listening to Talvin/Karsh/Norah.
In the meantime, you shall know our velocity.
Who is Kal Penn?
I do listen to Talvin but Norah is eminently forgettable. And don’t know Karsh
Don’t get peppy baby. I think americans should respect feelings in other counties about their soverign right to solve their own problem and issues. And that would be americans of any race. My feeling are same for assorted american guju uncles who are pro-modi.
Velocity will be met with velocity. No F-16s please for our desh please!!!
Sorry had to get back.
The foriegn interference should not be there regardless of the issue – like no butting in our Nuclear programs, signing of CTBT, pipeline to Iran (lke condi just did), relations with Venezuala etc. etc. Interference does not mean writing a damn blog on sepia and other quasi intellectual blogs – after all freedom of speech exists both in the US and in India. Interference means active influencing the outcome of events regarding issues and people thereby negating the democratic processes of India/any other democratic nation.
oh….is sepia for american indians only? I missed that part!! I pay for the music and movies, no one can ask me to zip it about that part. Other than ppl who vote(in india), should zip it atleast about politics! Just because one is brown does not give a right to be indian, indian culture may be.
Saw the pictures, I don’t see any comments lamenting the use of swastika + hinduism + nazism together, on sepia? Where are the righteous ppl of sepia? What abt the morons holding those posters. Who is going to educate them? I was with these people untill I saw those pictures. I am still for the cause though.
oh…the above post is mine not anon (1). This time I am using anon-2
Good job by the ppl in the pictures….associate one more word with hatred, “hindutva”. Hinduism is fine, just FINE but not hindutva. Just because BJP uses the word “hindutva”, and these ppl say it is bad, we can’t use it anymore. GOOD JOB FELLAS. One other moron raves about the placards.
Its very good idea to not delegate someone authenticty a priori to speak on behalf of a culture/community/desh….
so I don’t think Manish, anon, or anyone else authentically can tell anyone to butt out of anything as a representative of india/america/aliens/karsh kalay fans (or how you spell it)
yes to authenticity based on a person’s experience and no to pseudo-authenticty
word em up (I can say word em up bc I heard it in a song)
ya dig? I can say ya dig because of the way I walk
(did anyone get this?)
Look at Zaheera’s claim:
Manish Vij_ji, here is something to gladden your heart. You can put it up on this blog if you would like.
The next pope may be from India. http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1299898,0008.htm
How nice? They want a pope from the third world who can convert some more people and cause more turmoil. grrrrrreat!! Give ’em some blankets, give ’em some F-16s Pied Piper!! Got your placards?
Look what Modi’s American friends did for him. He has been given a reprieve and allowed to continue as the CM of Gujrat inspite of widespread oposition to him within BJP. I bet you the american visa brouhaha played a role in saving his seat. I guess congratulations are in order for the folks here who wanted him to go.
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=289492
This comment is silliness of the highest order. Neither was the BJP going to dump Modi of his own accord, nor would not pressing for his removal ever have yielded results.
I hate to take extreme positions. CAG is just as extreme if not more.
Look at the name Coalition Against Genocide. The word Genocide is loaded. There is no genocide going on anywhere in India. Walk the streets of Ahmedabad, Surat and Vadodara. Walk even the walled areas, look at mosques and businesses in the area. Does it look any different from Old Delhi and the Hyderabad old city? Matter of fact, Ahmedabad elected a Muslim mayor within months of Feb 2002, just like Hyderabad has done for years together.
There is a lot of people – perhaps far greater than those that oppose Modi being denied Visa – who find Modi distasteful, but still feel denial was interfering into India’s domestic matters. Reminds me of “Sum of all Fears” where the Russian prez tells Ben Affleck (Jack Ryan) to stay out of commenting on Chechnya – “that is none of your business”!. CAG has no public representation whatsoever. It says it is built of 38 different orgs, who in turn have no public representation whatsoever. USINPAC, AAHOA, PM of India’s office -one’s protesting the denial of visa- have public representation. Those voices cannot be ignored, worse lampooned. There is a great community voice too (largely uncollated surely) that has protested the visa. Poking that can only be at the expense of calling oneself “esoteric”.
CAG has leftist elements, some influential spokespeople are rabid commies. One just cannot ignore that. Commie history is neck deep in genocides.
Finding Modi reprehensible is OK. But in writing charming commentary, one must be careful not to appear like taking sides who are themselves neck deep in crap.
Reading the link to Shaswati’s blog brings another thought. Why is it that people protesting Indian army in J&K think they might be accomodated in anti-Modi protest? Good that some placard holders threw them away but then another couple showed up. So why do these people think they will be sympathized with Modi protesters? IMC in its last confernce had a speaker whose theme was that India should be broken down into several pieces. Each state becomes a country.
This is what pisses me off – rather treat them with suspicion. I’d like to ask how secular is IMC. Gawd, how can a secular organization have a name like Indian Muslim Council? For me secular is something like the IEEE, one that talks of Engineering and religon is not even in the ballpark.
Oeth – I am not sure where you are or if you follow Indian politics closely but let me address the silliness.
Let me first agree with you that BJP would not have kicked Modi out because of his actions or non-actions when the riots took place. BUT do you care the reason for his removal or his removal per se?
Voices against him were growing within BJP for other reasons – both personal reasons of Guj. MLAs and his autocratic style of ruling the state. Therefore he was on a thin rope and likelyhood of his own party removing him from the post was significant. However in-came this extra-territorial potests and the visa denial. Almost all parties questioned the US government of interference and double standards – including at highest level the PM himself. This made a Modi hero once more and now removing him would show that somehow BJP was succumbing to pressure/influence from a foriegn government. In these circumstances, it became impossible to remove him at this time.
So you can call it silliness or what have you – the fact is that the visa denial has certainly extended his tenure and strengthed him against his opponents.
There you have it – explained and dumbed down for people who either don’t live in India or follow politics to know these simple facts.
Your analysis also applies for Musharraf, Kim Jong Il and the Iranian mullahs. It’s an incredibly underaspiring analysis. You’re looking at things with the lazy shorthand of random short term events, when the pressure helps guarantee his eventual ouster.
Oeth – Lets not argue about arguments. When you don’t have points to make, you resort to labeling simple points as “silliness” or “underinspiring” or “lazy shorthand”.
There is nothing wrong with protests orchestrated by CAG. The problem is the US government succumbing to those protests and hence interfering in India’s affairs by taking a political decision when they don’t do the same with worse assorted heads of states of the world. Yeah I would love to see CAG and its supporters line up against Mush when he goes to Camp David next time around. Rank hypocrites.
Anon1, Your arguments are very naive. People like you can’t get out of the mindset that the U.S. somehow insulted India’s honor. All your arguments follow-up on that line of logic without seeing the bigger picture. This was an absolutely correct decision by the U.S. and probably executed in conjunction with approval from India’s Congress lead government. I think that is the point Oeth was trying to make when he said, “You’re looking at things with the lazy shorthand of random short term events, when the pressure helps guarantee his eventual ouster.” Your analysis IS lazy and shortsighted.
Lost,
Irrespective of whether the U.S. decision is an actual insult to India’s honor or not, a lot of people in India seem to think this way. The result of this is that Modi is now a martyr and it’s likely that he might again be elected as a Chief Minister in Gujarat if elections were to be conducted today. In short, the U.S. action has helped Modi consolidate his position within BJP and as Gujarat CM at a time when, as anon1 correctly says, he was under fire from his own partymen.
Maybe he will eventually be ousted because of the pressure. Maybe not. BJP needs to have a reason other than the riots to fire Modi in order to save its own face. And this reason is now harder to find. If you believe that BJP(or Modi) needs to publicly own responsibility for the riots, it’s not happening anytime soon – they are too many people in Gujarat (and elsewhere) who think that the riots are “a lesson”.
That’s the real issue now, isn’t it. Why is the U.S. having to smack Modi when India should’ve done so a long time ago?
Oeth,
We are on the same page there. There are many factors that gave rise to such an opinion among the Hindus. I just feel sad and ashamed that a lot of people think this way.
My point now is that the chances of India (and Indian people) taking action on Modi have reduced because of the U.S. action on Modi. Hindus and Muslims (in Gujarat and elsewhere) need to live in harmony and that purpose is not served by the visa denial, which just increases the belligerence in both sides.
Lost – You have an appropriate name – Lost. You are lost in your own thick fog.
Don’t put words in my mouth – I did not say that US actions was an “insult to India’s honor”. I think it was (a) Hypocritical (b) inconsistent and (c) foolish.
ANd if you think US took Congress’ approval – you are REALLY LOST. Yes it cost the US nothing because BJP was not in power but approval – Ha Ha.
Shorn of arguments, if it makes your heart happy putting labels – go ahead and do it. As Vij-ji said above, “you will feel the velocity” beta!!!
Oeth – I don’t believe in the “lesson” bit. Riots were abhorable!!
anon1, “Lost” refers to the fact that whomever I am addressing is a “lost” cause. I think you just demonstrated that. Your grammar skills are similarly “lost.”
Aha – so you had to explain yourself!!! Ha Ha. I can’t stop laughing. When you cannot argue beta (son), then you resort to labeling. When pointed out as such you change the argument from the issue at hand to grammer skills. Ha Ha. Next time you fill a form which says “Name” Put something that sounds like a name or nomenclature that refers to yourself. Ha ha Ha. Issue closed.
I think you meant grammar skills. Grammar is spelled with an “a” not an “e.”
crap….now this is high school english forum?
Lost-ji
Sorry bhaiya can’t compete with your lingo….You are the big Bhagwan of angrezi grammAr. OK Puttar.
Reading the placards i was shocked to see the exaggerated messages and pure outright lies on them. There is no end to the hypocrisy of these traitors.
Their real target isnt just modi but also Hinduism.
I see that besides muslim n commies christians also have jumped on the band wagon. Not cause they care about muslims but because they want nobody to potentially get in the way of their wicked conversion activities among lower castes and tribals.
One placard (i presumed carried by a muslim) reads “Justice is having freedom of religion”. Yes i wonder what freedom of religion there is in Saudi Arabia or any other muslim country. I believe that one dares renouncing Islam there they will become a murtad. ie; killed.
As for US decision. Well i guess donald rumsfield sharon terrorfat niyazov kissenger hu jnitao et al will be having a really good laugh.
Now we know what were up against.
People who critise Modi and Gujarat incident should understand the tactics the minorities follow in india. When Hindus are killed in Kashmir the news media (Indian & Western) never publish the true story. For eg : When hindus are killed in KAshmir they say “People belong to one particular community killed”. In north east when Hindus are killed by christian terrorists the media says “Ethinic violence in North East”, “Terrorist Kill five people”. Actually in North East its the christian fanatics who kill Hindus. The media kept quite when 20000 thousand Hindus were driven out of Kashmir. 45000 HIndus were driven out of Mizoram by Christian terrorist/fanatics.THe christian fanatics have killed even small girl children for celebrating hindu festival shankranthi .When the same christian goons tried to create problem in orissa Hindus fought back. In that Mr stains and his two sons were killed. The western media told Hindu hardliners killed missionaries. So there is a one law for Hindu and another for minorities.
SO in Idnia we have an unwritten law if a Hindu is killed by minorities it is downplayed. WHen Hindus fight for their survival itis known as religious violence.
WHen Hindus kept quite after being attacked in Kashmir and North East, who came to their rescue ? What the stupid secularist excpect ? You want Hindus to die and become extinct ? Why should we ? Did Americans keep quite Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour ? When US retaliated by Bombing Tokyo many Japanes civilians were killed. Do any one have the guts to critise US.
If tolerating the atrocities by Christian/Muslim fanatics is secularism we dont want that certification, we prefer to be fanatics. We Hindus have the right to live
Fight for survival? Hindus are by far the majority in India. Why is it any surprise that media coverage focuses on the weaker?
If you want to stop politicians pandering to minorities, change the leaders you elect.
The media is not cover minorities who are weaker. Media is biased in favour of minority. Moreover most of the reputed media are owned by Hindu bashers. Eg: The Hindu. It is beleived that a muslim owns this paper.
“If you want to stop politicians pandering to minorities, change the leaders you elect”
Our constitution itself a biased one. Then how can Hindus get justice. India was created for Hindus and Pakistan for Muslimes. Pakis drove almost all Hindus but we (Gandhi & Nehru) allowed them to stay here. Then why they accepted the division of India. They day those two guys accepted muslims in India, Hindus lost their rights.
The secularism of India is flawed. First of all our approach to history is totally messed up. A lot of issues are glossed over or totally ignored. History is ugly, it is better we learn from it so as not to repeat the mistakes again. The way we deal with minorities is laughable really.
For example if an area has 4 mosques and all 4 mosques give the call to prayer simutaneously it creates a lot of noise and it does bother a lot of people including muslims. Now in Turkey there is a rule that if there are so many mosques in one area then only 1 mosque should have a automated call to prayer, all mosques can be open, but only one need to scream the call to prayer.
If in India a law was passed to adopt the same system all hell would break lose. Even though Islamic countries like Turkey (I know officially it is secular, and it is better secular than India) and Egypt have the same rules.
The fact that India doesnt have one uniform civil code for all people is a farce. Why should muslims have a different set of marriage and inheritence etc laws? We are all Indians and we should all have secular common law based on logic and common sense, not religion. Eventually it will be the Muslims of India themselves who will pulldown their personal Law Board and demand it (already the AIMPLB has split into factions), too bad a lot of people will suffer till that happens.
That’s a silly point of view. You’re legitimizing the exile of Hindus from the Pakistan side as well. It’s hardly a magnanimous gesture to ‘allow’ people to keep their own land, their own property– to drive them out based on religion is what Idi Amin did. I’m 100% opposed to what Pakistan did to Hindus, and I’m 100% opposed to your idea that India should’ve done the same.
ASR: I agree, different bodies of law for different religions is a really bad idea.