My friend Santhosh Daniel emails:
So, I was tooling around, looking for designs, and I dropped in or “on” [Tamil Nation]. As you can guess or tell from the address, it’s a site devoted to the Tamil diaspora, which got me thinking about the concept of diaspora not in terms of nation, but state…My father is a Malaysian Tamil, my mother an Indian Tamil and I, an American Tamil and, my sense of ‘place resides in all three regions and often supersedes my sense of being Indian and/or “desi…”
In the States there is incessant discussion about the Indian diaspora, and I feel wholly disconnected from it… I am part of the Tamil diaspora as defined by Tamil Nadu-Sri Lanka-Malaysia-U.S. just as a Punjabi is part of his diaspora as defined by Punjab-Pakistan-Canada-U.S. and a Gujarati via Gujarat-Africa-U.S. There is a cultural history to each of those things that is both separate and part of the “Indian diaspora”… Each group has its own values, transgressions, literature, heroes, migrations…
My life tends to be guided by the Tamil diaspora, I notice, as I get older. Doesn’t mean I don’t see myself as part of the Indian gaggle, it’s just that I notice more and more how much I am also part of something else. (posted with permission)
Great observation. To the Punjabi diaspora, I’d add the U.K. To Gujaratis, add Antwerp. To Tamils, Singapore. And you see micro-diasporas in the U.S. with clusters of different ethnicities in different cities.
And it’s simultaneously more and less profound than Santhosh describes: every person is a morass of fault lines and microcommunities on axes like sexual preferences, hobbies and musical taste.
I reckon the UK is the cultural centre of the Punjabi Diaspora.
Manish
What is the Gujarati~Antwerp connection???
i think it’s the bling.
🙂
Cheers ANNA
interesting post. the multiple fault lines is important…i am guessing from your friend’s last name that he is at least partly christian in background (i am just saying that if his father is christian that doesn’t mean he’s christian)? i used to hang out with some christian groups in college because i thought i could corrupt some girls, and there were a few evangelical browns in it, and they really were pretty detached from any brown identity. same thing happens to hardcore brown muslims. don’t think it’s as much of an issue with hindus and sikhs because if you are hindu or sikh your religious community intersects so closely with south asian identity.
if you study the situation in south africa and mauritius, the brown-brown cleavages are often pretty strong, and tamils in both places distance themselves from the majority north indian brown population (as to do the gujarati mercantile clans). in mauritius tamils (along with muslim browns) tend to place themslves between the north indian hindu brown plural majority and the “creole” christian minority. also, i have noticed that in both mauritius and south africa tamils have a much higher conversion rate to christianity, which i suspect might be due to relative social distance from the larger south asian community….
Ok, I apologize in advance for the stereotypes (if offensive), but…
haven’t Tamils usually seen themselves as somewhat “apart” from India? Their language, history, and even Hindu mythology are all lauded by their own – in my opinion, more so than other Indian language groups. IIRC (if I recall correctly), don’t they have their own version of the Ramayana? And many Tamils are quick to point out that Tamil existed before Sanskrit, their voices always tinged with pride and joy in its rich heritage. Likewise, after Indian independence, some Tamil leaders (such as C.N. Annadurai) pushed for independence from India (caveat: I am not well versed in this history, so please point out corrections).
I am a Malayalee, American born, but I still see myself as part of an Indian diaspora. More so than the Kerala-Gulf-US mallu diaspora.
Mom is Malayalee, but was born in Basrah. Dad is Malayalee Malaysian, and I grew up in the US (and France.) Until fairly recently, I identified more with being Malaysian than with being Indian. A lot of that, for me, was the “Indianer than thou” attitude that some people had – and the whole North/South debate (“You don’t speak Hindi?!?!?!”) Blech.
Having “diaspora parents” also affects the way you’re raised. As most ABCDs will tell you, parents are often more strict than those in India…people in India, at least the middle-class , have modernized. But imagine if the “Indian” influence comes from your grandparents, the people who actually left India. There are times where I realize I’ve been raised with the values of 1940s India! 😉
-D
Tamils usually seen themselves as somewhat “apart” from India? Their language, history, and even Hindu mythology are all lauded by their own – in my opinion, more so than other Indian language groups.
Please. No sets themselves more “apart” from other desis like we (bengalis) do. even in this comment!
(in response to Razib)
Yes, I am Christian, however, my comments regarding a disconnect from the “diaspora” are relative to Tamilian culture, not Christianity… To clarify, I don’t have any problem calling myself “Indian” or participating in that identity, for whatever it might mean. In India, I don’t feel separate from the culture, that has never been the case. I do, however, have a sense of separation when it comes to the concept of a cumulative “diaspora” and the reason for that has to do wholly with the fact that [the national diaspora] is somewhat vague when compared to regional diaspora.
It’s not an uncommon feeling nor is it relative to religion; as for the widespread separation of Tamils from the mainstream of India, I think its safe to say that the isolationist tactics aren’t always inititated just by the Tamils.
(in response to Anonymous Cow)
In regard to Tamils and their anomalous Indian existence, yes, there is the Kamba Ramayana, which is different than the commonly-known Tulsidas Ramayana in regard to plot and verse. But, then, there is also the Bengali version, which features Ramayana as a hero and later, as wholly effeminate. In regard to Tamil as a language, it has been proven that it is the one language of India that bears very little, if any, influence of Sanskrit… Tamils have a severe pride in their culture, but then, so do Punjabis, Bengalis and Gujaratis, correct?
I see myself as part of the Indian diaspora, I said so in my excerpted comment. I also see myself as part of the Tamil diaspora and identify strongly with that… As an American, you’re part of a Western diaspora but when it comes down to it, am I correct in saying you’d first claim membership in the Indian diaspora? I realize it’s not a direct-analogy, but can any of the arguments you put forth above be applied to that question?
Correction:
“… But then, there is also the Bengali version, which features Ravana as a hero…”
I really do find the Indian “diaspora” very diverse, the Punjabi’s, the Tamils. Then again the different Indian diasporic groups in Malaysia, Surinam, Guyana, USA.
What I find most fascinating however, is that when these groups make a film, or represent a culture, or pen literature it all deals with the same themes of – identity, gender relations, culture (Large umbrella word) and the home reference is “India”.
I have a question, do you have friends who are white or black trying to find and relate their identity to the homelands of their parents/forefathers? (Just an academic question).
Great post and comments – you see this play itself out so often in so many contexts. Maybe the existance of so many microcommunities is further complicated by the shrinking time that separates immigrant generations in the US now. I’ve noticed that the difference between generations isn’t limited to the 20 years between ourselves and our parents anymore – things are changing so quickly nowadays, because of technology, immigration patterns, and cultural globalism, that I feel like the difference in identity between myself and my cousins who are 5 years younger than me can almost be classified as a microgenerational gap, even though we were all born here.
Maybe all of these faultlines and differences point even more clearly toward the utility of a broader political identity that doesn’t rely on the small pieces of our lives that can bind us into tiny, restricted cultural, ethnic, and regional spaces if we let them.
Or maybe we are each communities unto ourselves. Especially the Bengalis, right, Saurav?
Santhosh’s observation has also been apparent to me. Coming from a Kannadiga family, I recognize much of the “diaspora” cultural touchstones as not reflective of my particular cultural background.
When there are very few South Asian people around, they band together regardless of ethnicity or religion. As the population increases, they tend to fragment into their cultural groups.
I agree with squareroots desi that a broader, loosely unified political identity has great utility for us. We just have to show an increased acceptance of our differences from each other as well, rather than insisting that our particular background is the “true” Indian background (e.g. FOB/ABCD debate).
i think an analogy is warranted here. take the white community of trinidad, from what i gather, this small minority is very diverse, with all sorts of europeans melting into it. in europe, it is obvious that a spaniards, swedes and an irishmen are very different…but, when transplanted overseas european identities compress into “whiteness.” south asia is as large, more numerous, and as varietous, as europe.
my family is from bangladesh. yet recently i was accosted on the streets of my small town in oregon by an eastern european hare krishna who implored that i “connect with my culture.” since the individual could not by physical inspection gather that i was muslim by origin and atheist by profession, they assumed i was hindu. this sort of confusion in the united states exemplifies the fact that even though i don’t feel particular commonalities with other types of brown people (in large part because i am somewhat aggressive in my rejection of brown religious traditions, or religion in general) i am canalized into some sort of brown affiliation by the fact of my physical resemblence. even though most people on this board do not likely agree with bobby jindal’s social conservatism or his fundamentalist catholicism, they can probably empathize with his situation two years ago when he had to compete against an “american” who had “hometown” appeal in louisiana because of her “local” roots.
i would argue as brown people in the diaspora “assimilate” intragroup differences disappear. consider the relative simplification of caste in both trinidad, and to a lesser extent, in mauritius. similarly in the USA “desi” youth speak with each other in english so the linguistic differences that separate their parents are not as salient.
but i think there is a flip side: the more a desi identity evolves because of the diminishment of intragroup differences because of the irrelevance of “old country” differences the lower the barriers are with the general culture. so, the differences between german jews, litvak jews and galician jews are pretty irrelevant today, even though in the first half of the 20th century they were pretty important…there is instead one jewish identity that is espoused by the assimilated by great-grandchildren of the immigrant generations. but, the assimilation has also resulted in a great increase in outmarriage with the gentile population, and so there has been the suggestion that the jewish identity will simply be an epiphenomena as the “assimilated” jewry becomes absorbed into the general population leaving the rump of religious orthodox jews.
“When there are very few South Asian people around, they band together regardless of ethnicity or religion. As the population increases, they tend to fragment into their cultural groups.”
this is true…back in the early 1980s my family socialized a lot more with bengalis from west bengal because there were so few bangladeshis around. today that’s not that much of an issue so they usually socialize with bangladesis, skewed even toward those from their local region.
this obvious works against my observations above, that as communities become established they lose their coherence if they are a small minority-but the process noted above is more important for FOBs IMO.
Santosh, to (hopefully) clarify my comments, I see myself as an American first and foremost, a member of the Indian community second, and a Malayalee finally. (geez, I guess that’s why everybody calls us american born confused desis 😉
I totally (or conveniently 🙂 forgot about the Bengalis, Punjabis, and Gujus when writing the first comment. I might have written the first post differently had I remembered; the post was an attempt to neatly explain your sentiments to myself (and incidentally share it with others), but now I need to think about it more.
this article is of relevance to the discussion: Communalism and Identity among South Asians in Diaspora.
Jesus…I thought I wasnt a confused desi…but after reading this post I really am
snip: “The prospects for a South Asian pan-ethnicity also seem to be strongest amongst the second and third generation offspring from migrant families, who culturally have more in common, not least of all the American language. Within the U.K., where South Asian communities have been established for rather longer, this development…”
razib: “but the process noted above is more important for FOBs IMO.”
-I agree.
“The prospects for a South Asian pan-ethnicity also seem to be strongest amongst the second and third generation offspring from migrant families” I agree with Razib. I am not sure if theres any cognizance of a South Asian idenity in FOB’s. First generation immigrants usually tend to socialize and identify more on commonality of language than anything else. Apart from Bengalis there is little to none socialization between first generation Indian Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. North Indian Muslims and the Pakistanis do tend to socialize a little bit more, but that probably is a function of common religion and based on some sense of shared South Asian identity. What I find real interesting is that in UK, theres a movement in some sections of the Indian community to create a distinct ‘Indian’ identity as a result of the growing achievement/assimilation gap between the Indians and the Pakistanis. The Indian community has now started to refer to themselves as ‘Indians’ and not ‘Asians’ as a means to create a distinction between themselves and the more maligned and villified ‘Pakis’ ( Paki itself being a racial slur as I understand).
North Indian Muslims and the Pakistanis do tend to socialize a little bit more, but that probably is a function of common religion and IS NOT based on some sense of shared South Asian identity
“North Indian Muslims and the Pakistanis do tend to socialize a little bit more, but that probably is a function of common religion and IS NOT based on some sense of shared South Asian identity”
i think you overplay the lack of salience of south asianness once you have a religious similarity. at my multicultural masjid in the 1980s in upstate NY all the south asians stuck together, all the middle easterners were together (dividing into arab, persian and turkish cliques), the southeast asians clustered (mostly malaysians, though muslim filipinos, indonesians and even chinese slotted into this group) and the black amerians hung together. a big reason this occurred is food.
speaking for my own family, we had various social circles.
the “inner circle” consisted of bangladeshis, mostly muslim, but also some hindus (who are overrepresented in the educated classes in bangladesh and so emigrate more).
the “middle circle” consisted of indian bengalis and pakistanis.
the “outer circle” were south asians in general.
commonalities were important. for example, one time my mother was treated by a nurse from kerala. my mother became friendly with her and so we were invited to some parties at the woman’s house. unfortunately, everyone there was christian and much of the chattering was in malayalee. the food was a little different too. that friendship just couldn’t really blossom.
in contrast, one of my family’s closest friends was a woman from calcutta who was the “grand dame” of the bengali/brown community in our town in upstate NY (her husband was a physician who had settled there in the 1950s and was a professor at a medical school). through her we meet some people from orissa who we became rather close too, and through these people we met some people from andhara pradesh. since many of the oriyans spoke bengali, and their diet wasn’t that different, we could relate to them (and there were other bengalis at their functions). the people from andhara pradesh were different, but they also related to the people from oriya, so you had a social circle of bengalis, oriyans and telugus that “worked” because oriyans could act as mediators.
just so anna doesn’t jump on this 😉
“unfortunately, everyone there was christian and much of the chattering was in malayalee.”
i meant unfortunately in the sense in that my parents couldn’t relate, there is nothing wrong with being a christian or speaking malayalee….
also, consider this, i consider manish and vinod friends. my family is from the northeast of india, manish’s is from the northwest and vinod from the south. whatever our differences (eg; manish and vinod are more enthusiastic about being desi than i, vinod and i are right-libertarians, manish is not, etc.), the fact that none of us are deeply involved in any particular religious confession means that there isn’t another fault line that separates us (ie; my family is muslim, i am an atheist, vinod’s is christian, he is agnostic/non-religious).
“india” is the old sense-as my family comes from the eastern part of bangladesh….
“the “inner circle” consisted of bangladeshis, mostly muslim, but also some hindus (who are overrepresented in the educated classes in bangladesh and so emigrate more)” The point I am making is that except for Bengalis and Muslims, I havnt seen first generation Indian Hindus in the ‘inner circle’ of Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims and vice versa. This pan South Asian identity hardly exists in the FOB community. Exceptions again being Muslims and Bengalis.
FYI razib: malayalees speak malayalam
“FYI razib: malayalees speak malayalam”
that explains some of the confusion, doesn’t it?
it’s easier with bengalis. they live in bengali, speak bengali, and are called bengali 😉 (at least in english, i think in bengali the people are “bangali” and the language is “bangla”).
i meant live in bengal.
it’s easier with bengalis. they live in bengali, speak bengali, and are called bengali 😉 (at least in english, i think in bengali the people are “bangali” and the language is “bangla”).
Dur. Bangla na shikle aarkichu kore ki laab hoi? Bhalokore shek, razib. Banglai lokeder bole “bangali”, bhasha take bole “bangla” aar jaega take bole “bongo” (poschim bongo ba bangladesh/purbo bongo). Englisheo aamra shey kataagulo bavohaar korthe pari, iche hole (aamra jokhun “internally colonized” hothe chaina). at least, aami tho koree jokhun iche hoi.
Or maybe we are each communities unto ourselves. Especially the Bengalis, right, Saurav?
Yup. If we can’t hegemonize a space, don’t expect us there. 😉
Anyway, all this discussion sort of raises the question of what the point is of a desi or South Asian identity rather than a humanist one or a queer one or a female one or a class one and how we ended up focusing on race to begin with. could it be…satan?
amar bangla beshi balhaw na 😉 ami translieration beshi balhaw pordthe pari na….
didn’t know about the “bongo” part, thanks.
as for why a desi identity is important…vinod and manish have spoken to this before, but on a minimal level it seems a plausible response to perceived injustice/racial targetting from the society at large (eg; the attacks/threats against sikhs after 9-11 galvanized all south asians, not just sikhs, because sikhs were just the most visible exemplar of what was animating the bigots).
as i have said before though, i am ambivalent about a south asian political identity, and am skeptical that post 9-11 threats are frequent enough to warrant the generation of an organized ethnic lobby outside the umbrella of the asian ameriacn activist class. vinod has spoken of both “push” and “pull” influences, that is, push from society and pull from an individual perspective. i think as this discussion illustrates there is room for debate about how much pull genuine exists…and i think that the push from society is far less than it was 15-20 years ago (i am rarely asked if i am from india on the street anymore as i’m less of an exotic specimen).
Al Mujahid
[[What I find real interesting is that in UK, theres a movement in some sections of the Indian community to create a distinct ‘Indian’ identity as a result of the growing achievement/assimilation gap between the Indians and the Pakistanis]]
You have it the wrong way round.
The impetus for this is largely as a result of the priveliging by the majority of Pakistanis in Britain of their religious identity over their ethnic one. This goes back to The Satanic Verses affair which acted as a catalyst for an increase in Muslim consciousness amongst Pakistanis in Britain. The attempt to forge a separate “Indian” identity is as a response to the communalisation of identity politics brought about, in part, as a result of Pakistani Muslims who did not want to be associated with Hindus and Sikhs. This goes back over fifteen years.
Punjabi Boy, I agree with your analysis as well. However the primary reason behind this movement is the fact that the Indian community in UK is richer, more educated, more assimilated in the mainstream and less villified in the popular culture than the Pakistani community. The fact that Pakistanis were already creating a Pan Islamic indentity might make it easier for the Indians now to create a distinction between Asians and Indians. (In UK Asian means South Asian) Something interesting has happened since 9-11 in the US. I am not sure about how much interaction you have had with Pakistanis to have noticed this. In the US in the pre 9-11 World a lot of Pakistanis would play on their ‘Central Asian/Turkish/Middle Eastern roots’ especially the Pathans/Kashmiris/Balochis and lighter skinned Punjabis. This was more prevalent in Pakistani college kids who did this not out of some Pan Islamic identity consciousness but to seperate themselves from the caricature of the South Asian ( Read Indian male aka Apu, Cabbie) This again was more common in social settings when these men were out to get dates or to get hooked up etc., In the Post 9-11 World, being Arab/Meditterenean is not that cool anymore. I wonder if the Pakistani kids still do that. I am not in campus settings anymore to notice. Disclaimer : In light of the hyper sensitivity of Sepia readers, I would like to point out that I am not suggesting that all Pakistanis did that. I am only basing my observation on a limited anecdotal/personal evidence.
Pretty interesting discussion ! However, does anyone have any insight as to how an Indian from India would look at this? As is would they associate more to an Indian from a neighboring state , or their own kind from an overseas diasporas?
There are way too many different identities that fall under the category of Tamil for you to make that generalization. What is a Tamil? Is s/he someone who speaks Tamil, hails from Tamil Nadu or supports the LTTE? What about us Tam-Brahms who speak Sanskritized Tamil? Historically, we haven’t been included by North Indians for being southie, and have also been informed by Tamil Nadu natives that we don’t speak suddha (proper) Tamil. Anonymous Cow unwittingly hit a raw nerve with that comment, but not in an obviously offensive way: This irreconciliation is what has kept me from being too involved with the Tamil sangams wherever I go in this country. [Besides, bharathanatyam pieces and lip-synching to Ilaiyaraja numbers are not the only things we Tamils have to offer the global cultural landscape.]
Now, let’s zoom out to the muddle of cultures that consitute an individual of Indian origin who has lived outside of India. As a Hindu desi who has lived all over the northern hemisphere, is married to a white American and innately identifies with the very cool in my various ethnological experiences, what does it make me? While I am part of the Tamil diaspora in quite a different way from Santosh Daniel, I will have to agree with his observation “Doesn’t mean I don’t see myself as part of the Indian gaggle, it’s just that I notice more and more how much I am also part of something else.” Insert your driver in place of “something else.”
Of course, this reasoning will sit well with me until my next identity crisis. That’s the beauty of self-examination, I suppose.
I suppose, in the end or beginning, we acknowledge that “Indian diaspora” is more classification than culture. That seems evident in what everyone is saying…
There is the question, hinted at by Maitri, of a North-South divide and would anyone care to jump into that…
Speaking of that, Razib, what is it that binds your friendship with Manish and Vinod? That’s not a challenge, just an inquiry as to whether you’re saying it began because of a unified sense of “Indian-ness” and if so, what exactly does that mean…
And, well, here, let me just insert some more ellipses: … … … … … …
(Anonymous Cow: no offense–without your comment, the ball may not have rolled this far)
(Saurav: the devil made me write that email to Manish, see my head turn full circle, green vomit, et al 😉
Has anybody seen Miss India Georgia? It’s a documentary about Indian identity as seen through the very different lives of four girls in an Atlanta beauty pageant for South Asians. I think many of the people interested in this thread may also be interested in the movie, judging from the plot synopsis.
I’ve been meaning to see the documentary for 2 years (!); I know that a local university library has a copy, and they may be the best resources for others who also want to see it (cause you ain’t gonna find this at Blockbuster!).
Speaking of that, Razib, what is it that binds your friendship with Manish and Vinod? That’s not a challenge, just an inquiry as to whether you’re saying it began because of a unified sense of “Indian-ness” and if so, what exactly does that mean…
a few years ago my weblog was trail-blazing into some very un-PC territory (doesn’t ask, just google my name and see what some people think of me). vinod linked to us now and then. so, it was his openmindedness, rather than his brownness, that cemented our friendship. manish, i met through to vinod, and he also has participated now and then on the comment boards of my weblog. i have become more aware of the whole concept of being a brown american, that is, “desi,” via them (this was a term i didn’t really know about they brought me up to speed on it). because of my friendship with manish and vinod i tend to keep a closer eye on brown topics than i otherwise would, sending them a link or two now and then, and try to put my 2 cents in on these boards. in return a non-trivial number of sepians do tend to wander over to my weblog and explore totally unrelated (usually) topics.
so, in a robert trivers sociobiological sense, it is reciprocal altruism 😉 i have similar relationships with many people of varied backgrounds.
oh yes, and both vinod & i are secular right-libertarians characterized by intellectual promiscuity. such a tie binds….
Razib gave me the kick in the ass to start blogging. He linked my dormant blog from his own, so to save face I had to actually start updating it 🙂
When I met first Vinod 10 years ago, he wore argyle sweater vests and didn’t know Daler Mehndi from Two Dollar Tuesdays. By the time Kiran and I were done with him, he knew how to bhangra, knew all the lyrics to ‘Muqabla’ and wrote lucid posts on things like Where’s the Party Yaar? We’re so proud of the progress he’s made.
and yet i remain semi-retarded…
am skeptical that post 9-11 threats are frequent enough to warrant the generation of an organized ethnic lobby outside the umbrella of the asian ameriacn activist class.
Well, that sucks for you and me Razib, because there are going to be a ton of desi organizations on a national level emerging into the political sphere in the next few years. most will be middle of the road, electoral politics, civic participation, blah blah blah oriented. This is good in some ways–the links between new york and chicago and la are going to form more strongly among people who work with low-income, women, and other disempowered desis. On the flip side, when it’s done wrong, which it frequently will be, it’s going to fall into the trap of identity politics trumping every other consideration (see: Indians funding Bobby Jindal, Michelle Malkin, etc.) From a good ol’ boy perspective, there’s nothing like “an asian american” to give voice to the idea that Japanese Internement was a good idea.
Hence why I raised the point (which you added an important nuance to that I forgot–that i’m speaking mostly about a political identity, not a cultural, personal, or expressive one)–why overemphasize a desi identity rather than what you did–which is find desis with shared beliefs/vibes/etc (and non desis too).
just because you’re Brown, it doesn’t mean your down.
sad, but right on the money.
Maitri said, “There are way too many different identities that fall under the category of Tamil for you to make that generalization.”
You are showing what I would call TBIC (Tamil Brahmin Identity Crisis). I happen to be a Tamil Brahmin myself (an Iyengar, to be precise), and I’ve always considered myself as belonging to the Tamil identity.
If we speak Sanskritised Tamil, that’s because Sanskrit has always been occupationally useful for Brahmins. That doesn’t make us less Tamil.
I don’t believe in the traditional migratory view that Tamil Brahmins came from the North. If we came from the North, why do we have names like Aaramudhan, Kannan, Alamelu and Andal (pure Tamil names)? and why do we speak Tamil as a mother tongue whereas the real migrants from North India (like the Tanjore Marathis and the Madurai Saurashtras) have preserved their mother tongue despite centuries of living in Tamil Nadu?
If we are fairer than lower-caste Tamilians, it’s because our ancestors never worked in tough physical conditions the way lower-caste Tamilians did.
As for your comment that you’ve not been involved in Tamil sangams, let me point out that many American Tamil Sangams have members by the names of “Vaitheeshwaran” and “Subramaniam” (obviously Tamil Brahmins who see themselves as Tamil). And the very same sangams have “Selvaraj”s and “Senthil Kumars”.
After a great deal of thought, I’ve come to the conclusion that Tamil Brahmins are native to Tamil Nadu s much as any other caste. Castes started off as occupations, so saying Tamil Brahmins are non-Tamil is like saying Tamil doctors or Tamil engineers are non-Tamil.
Let me tell you some of the things Tamils regardless of caste or religion have in common: 1.Bharatanatyam 2.Tanjore paintings 3.Tamil literature. 4. Distinctive genre of food including idli, dosai, vadai, pongal, uppuma 5. Popular entertainment culture consisting of Tamil movies and Tamil songs 6. Habit of making our father’s name our surname 7. Speaking Tamil at home as mother tongue. 8. Having a culture of achievement which has produced icons like Abdul Kalam, Viswanatham Anand, Mutthiah Muralidharan and Narain Karthikeyan.
Do you still believe there are different identities under the category of Tamil?
The perception of Second/Third generation Indians about First generation members of their diaspora
You have rocks, sticks, leaves and strange-smelling, unknown substances in your pantry for use as medicine or in your dinner.
You don’t cook rice in a rice cooker. You do it the old-fashioned way : water, a big pot, and fire.
You buy corn oil by the gallon.
Your family owns butcher knives bigger than your head.
Uncle Ben’s takes over the household.
Lipton Tea is bought by the bulk (especially when there is a sale for it.)
You get nothing if you do well in school, but crapped on if you don’t.
The furniture in your house never matches the wallpaper, the carpet, the decorations or any of the rest of the furniture.
Your brothers and sisters names rhymes or have the some letter to start with as yours.
MacDonald’s is prounounced MAC-DOUGH-NALLS.
Your father and mother endlessly tell you stories of how when they first came into this country, they had to eat the cheapest parts of the chicken (eg. the back, necks, etc.)
During evening prayer, your Grandmother let’s out a wailing belch. (If you could hear it, you know what I am talking about.)
You go to FOKANA / youth / spiritual conferences to pick-up chicks / dudes.
You have to explain to everyone, “That funny name is my father’s house name.”
Your parents tell you about how long it took for them to get to school, how horrible the weather was in their native country, and how much they still appreciated going.
Your parents buy you clothes and shoes many sizes too big so you can “grow into it” and wear it for years to come.”
You are teased about having two first names or else that your first name should be your last and vice versa.
Your mom is a nurse or she works somewhere in a hospital.
Your aunts and uncles bring you back adorable clothing from India with fuzzy bunnies, vinyl ducks and English words that make no sense in great colors like yellow, pink, magenta, orange and the ever popular lime green.
You either really, really want to go to NYU or really, really want to stay away from it.
“You want a stereo!” When I was your age, I didn’t even have shoes!!”
You have to call just about all your parent’s friends “Auntie and Uncle.”
You have 12+ aunts and uncles from both your mother’s and your father’s side.
At expensive restaurants, you order a delicious glass of water for your beverage and NEVER order dessert.
Your parents simply cut the green/black part off the bread and say “Eat it anyway. It’s still good.”
You will most likely be taller than your parents.
Your parents have either made you play the piano, the violin or both.
Your mother constantly professes, “I am not gossiping on the phone. It is important conversation…”
Your American friends names suddenly turn into Malayalam names. (eg. Manay, Dhaveed (David) is on the phone for you.)
When your friends find out about the name your parents call you at home, you never hear the end of it from them.
On long road trips, Mohamad Rafi or devotional songs make the time fly by.
Your parents still tried to get you into places half-price saying you were 12 when you were really 15.
You have a 40 lb. bag of rice in your pantry.
Your parents enjoy comparing you to their friends’ kids.
You’ve had to sit through videos with scantily clad, ugly Asian women attempting to dance and walk around a temple, forest or library.
You have to hide the fact that you have a boyfriend/girlfriend.
Everybody assumes you are Hindu or Muslim, because you are Indian but you stand up strong and say, “I am Christian.”
Everybody assumes you are Christian, because you are Malayalee, but you stand up strong and say, “I am Hindu” or “I am Muslim”.
You page yourself before you go out, so you look important.
At all the Indian parties, you and the Punjabis are the life of it..
You have heard of Malayalee Hit Squad, and you pretend you know someone in it everytime someone mentions it.
You say that you are in Malayalee Hit Squad to impress girls.
You act like you can dance Bhanghra styles.
Your North Indian friends mention a Hindi movie, you say that the Tamil or Malayalam version was the original one and that it was better.
Piles of shoes tend to make it hard to open the front, back and closet doors.
Your father and grandfathers have hair on their ears.
Idiot people try to impress you with pathetic imitation Asian languages.
Your ancestors 1000 generations back invented the back scratcher.
You are in an Engineering/Computer Science/Pre-Med/Med/Law program at your respective college.
If somebody asks you if you know a Malayalee person, your parents say, “His/Her father/mother was in my college.” or else “Yes, We are from the same village.”
You leave for college hating sambar, chicken curry, morra, and chor, but you come back home yearning for it.
You get angry about being compared to your other Mallu friends.
“Patti”, “Thendi” and “Potten” are commonly used expressions of insult.
You create a name for IRC or AOL chat rooms it’s always some name like “Thenga”, “Pichati”, “Ethikya” or things to that degree.
You leave it to your parents to find your spouse.
You pretend that you are not a Mallu at all.
Your Dad teaches you all the bad words in Malayalam, and your mom gets mad at him for that.
People ask you why your dad wears only a towel to pick up the newspaper or the mail.
You have a jungle growing in the backyard every summer, with pavikya, padavalingya, etc. growing and all your friends ask you why it stinks in the back yard.
(For females) You’re parents would freak out if you wore a crop top baring your midriff but wearing a sari is perfectly acceptable.
(For females) Your brother had no curfew while you had to be home at 11pm.
You are ALWAYS taking off and putting on your shoes wherever you go.
Tongue scrapers are not a new fad to you.
To your American friends, oil is used purely for cooking and not as a grooming aid.
When your American friends cringe at the thought of their parents in bed, you wonder how odd it would be to see your parents get within one foot of each other.
Your parents hover over your tired, caffeine-drugged body at 12 midnight to say, “In India (or other native country), we studied even more.”
Your parents expect you’ll be best friends with any one off the street unless they’re close by.
Your parents say, “Calculus? I took calculus in 8th grade!!”
You like $1.75 movies.
You like $1.50 movies even more.
Your parents have nicknames but only because people they work with just stop when trying to read their names.
People you call “uncle” always smell up the bathroom at parties.
If you aren’t married and you turn 25, your parents start wringing their hands and proclaim that it’s too late.
You have never met half of your extended family.
Your mother measures wealth in gold and diamonds.
A horoscope must decide your wedding date.
Your parents drink 6 cups of tea a day.
Your parents had eight daughters in hopes of having a son.
You are sick and tired of answering questions about “the dot.”
Your friends could not explain your religion to someone if they tried.
You could not explain your religion to someone if you tried.
You sound like “Apu” on the Simpsons.
You own a 7/11 or a motel with a name like “Roadside Inn.”
One or both of your parents skipped at least one year of elementary school.
In the smallest of subcompact cars, you still can’t see over the wheel without a phone book. WITH the phone book, you can’t reach the pedals.
You have cousins you have never met, whose names you don’t know, but who insist they’re related to you, even though they bear NO resemblance to anyone YOU know.
Your parents push the concept of an arranged marriage on you and try and demonstrate how well it works whenever they’re not fighting.
You have trouble paying attention to “minor” items like your kids’ social lives, but you know the exact number of the check that you’re on in your checkbook.
If a Lion is placed in a zoo,it is a zoo animal. But a Lion in the wild is not a zoo animal. Easy? It is hardly surprising if the Lion in the zoo also remembers that it is the Lord of the animals. India has hundreds of different languages, groups, castes, dialects – like a zoo, it is a multi-ethnic state.
The “Indianess” can only refer to those who hold Indian citizenship. A Punjabi in Pakistan, India, UK, USA, Canada, Malaysia, HK or Australia will be a Punjabi. But only the Indian Punjabi can be Indian. The others are nationals of their own countries. If any Punjabi can be an Indian, why do Punjabis with other apssports require a visa to visit their so-called “motherland?” You also know, of course, that there are more Punjabis in Pakistan than in India?
This is a comment directed towards Razib.I really think you are out of your depth regarding many aspects of the diaspora, and you know ‘speech is silver, silence is gold’.Your ridiculous idea about mauritian tamils placing themselves BELOW north indian mauritians is in keeping with several other unsophisticated mis and dis-information you have been wilfully spreading over the net.I am a Mauritian and a Tamil and am in a far better position than Razib who relies on hearsay and by his own admission ,a hesitant memory, to make glib generalisations about entire communities numbering hundreds of thousands of people.In short , Razib, if you don’t know, please keep it to yourself.