93 thoughts on “Stand up. For all of us.”

1. Allan- Conan’s skit didn’t call anyone a bitch or use racial slurs. It was not motivated out of hate. This phone call was. I watched the Conan skit, and it seemed to make fun of the out of place white guy more than the Indian call center workers.

   This is the reason so much outrage has been directed towards the radio show, but Conan got kudos. As someone pointed out in one thread or another about this – some ethnic humor IS funny! The kind that calls someone a rat-eating bitch and threatens physical violence, however, isn’t.

2. Allan, u r really stupid trying to compare Conan’s spoof with this bastard’s degradingly racist language. Now that u have started it , let me tell u something: In my 8 years in this country I have never experienced serious White racism, while the only racism has been directed by people belonging to groups who complain the most about it!! And tell u what mine is not an isolated case. Just ask around while asking people to be honest. But this goes against the grain of the conventional notion of White racist and Colored victim. And lately Indians have been too happy to play up this notion.In movies, in theatre,e.t.c.

   I don’t imply that a certain group is surprisingly more racist than the ones you would usually think of. Of course and not just to be politically correct, there are several good hearted Blacks for every STAR. But just look at the odds.

3. I think we desis need to develop a thicker skin. The dj’s joke was in poor taste. But we have to remember that it was a ‘joke’…I think comparison with Sami Arian are unwarranted. Sami was being accused of being a ‘terrorist or terrorist enabler’ and the accusation was not in jest. So theres a qualitative difference in accusing Sami of being a terrorist and a practical joke on a person in Delhi…I am concerned that we desis are going down the path already taken by the African Americans and the lately the asians where every relatively small incident is blown way out of proportion. The risk is that when something serious really happens, mainstream America tends to shut you out because they are on a Complain Overdose with that particular ethnic group.

   Al, I’ve been thinking about this, and your right Sami Al-Arian isn’t the best case comparison, but what I was going for was the way in which people have been responding to issues; especially issues concerning American vs. Non-american, and the jokes that are often facades for racist rants. But here are some questions:

   1) What was the context of the call? The mp3 talks about a call made earlier. Did he call on the air or off the air? Plus the difference that it’s a public channel. 2) Star clearly knows that call is being placed outside the US, so he knows that it’s someone from India and it doesn’t feel like an impromptu bit. 3) Allan say:

   Let us not forget that Star & Buc Wild took on the persona of white people who were appropriating Black culture (the hair bead machine) and took on sentiments of anti-asian & anti-outsourcing that the majority of white folks regularly practice. This is a critical question to the API folks that are outraged pertaining to the aforementioned examples: is it not okay for Black folks to practice white supremecy but okay for white folks to practice white supremecy? Let’s put it another way, would we be this outraged if an API person from the U.S. said the same statements toward, or made the same “comedy” type segment, in Africa?

   Like I said in point 1, based on the clip, what’s the context of the call? If it is indeed an impersonation of a white individual making a racist style phone call, does it still not make an impression on those listening that it is alright? Prior to knowing what the context was or even afterwards if there was an explanation, and no one heard it 4) Allan, the reason IMO that the Conan clip different was that it was more of satire on the current ironic situation of people in another country trying to help out people who don’t have the same cultural contexts. There is a not-subtle difference between that and “I’m going effing choke you”. 5) As for “a deeper level of Anti-black racism”, just who and which comments did you pick that up from? 6) Shan, I’ve been here for over 30 years and I’ve seen overt and non-overt racism from every ethnic group, including other Indians; to say that black people are more racist is non-sensical because that’s just been your experience.

   One interesting thing is that Clear Channel threw off Howard Stern because someone else said the N word on his show, but also because he was bad mouthing Bush. Similarly when the Dixie Chicks voiced their opinoins about Bush, the were also persecuted primarily by Clear Channel stations. Also, anyone see this:

   In an appearance before Congress in February, when the controversy over Janet JacksonÂ’s Super Bowl moment was at its height, Federal Communications Commission chairman Michael Powell laid some startling statistics on U.S. senators. The number of indecency complaints had soared dramatically to more than 240,000 in the previous year, Powell said. The figure was up from roughly 14,000 in 2002, and from fewer than 350 in each of the two previous years. There was, Powell said, “a dramatic rise in public concern and outrage about what is being broadcast into their homes.” What Powell did not reveal—apparently because he was unaware—was the source of the complaints. According to a new FCC estimate obtained by Mediaweek, nearly all indecency complaints in 2003—99.8 percent—were filed by the Parents Television Council, an activist group. This year, the trend has continued, and perhaps intensified….the FCCÂ’s Enforcement Bureau said it could find only 90 complaints from 23 individuals. (The smaller total was first reported by Internet-based TV writer Jeff Jarvis; Mediaweek independently obtained the Enforcement BureauÂ’s calculation.)

   Makes you wonder where the bobblehead pundits get their info from…

4. I have to throw my 1000 yen in here before I go off to eat bad Japanese food. Im going to back Allan up. Something aint right with me on this topic. I do think Star is guilty of Black on Indian racism. I also think the call was disgusting but Im wondering if all of you wrote letters and protested the detention of desis and other Brown people in the post Sept 11 world. Maybe Im turning into a white person (Im a Black American woman) the more time I spend away from the USA. I do think if a white person would have made the statements all of you would be mad but the venom wouldnt have been so hot. I do catch a hint of, How dare one of those niggers go off on one of my people! I enjoy reading this website. I get some relevant and interesting information from it but something has always sat funny with me about it. I always felt like it wasnt a very inclusive web space for a non-white minority. Im a Black American woman so I kind of understand the idea of people wanting their own space. I respect that but its a little sad for me because I was actually interested in being down with you all. I`m AUDI 5000 as Tevin Campbell said, a long time ago, in a song called Goodbye. PEACE!

5. ms. world-

   i do not care if the perpetrator of this act were indian himself– i’d be just as livid. disappointment see no colour in my world.

   if this were a white person spewing hatred at a black person, if this were a chinese person abusing a white person, if this were a smurf threatening a carebear with violence…it would make no difference to me. i’d still be outraged.

   i’m sick of the argument many of you think is made out of titanium, the “yeah, but where were you after sept 11, did you write letters then etc etc”. i did that and more. please don’t try and change the subject with this canard.

   i’m also sick of stating the following; protesting injustice is not a zero-sum game. i can be angry and fight for more than one cause at a time.

   i am so sorry that you perceive what you wrote about SM. one of your previous comments made me feel like you had already prejudged this site to be an unwelcoming space. two of our founding bloggers immediately tried to correct that assumption, and assure you of our intentions for this blog by responding to you with their own comments. unfortunately for all of us, their words apparently achieved very little and it seems i was right about my hunch.

   in my humblest of opinions, you’re wrong, at least about me, the diligent bloggers at SM and the people who commented here whom i know personally. we’re not hypocrites, we’re not insular and we’re not perfect. we’re just decent people who try and do the right thing. i can’t speak for strangers i’ve never met and i don’t claim to…

   we were interested in being down with you, too, but as you probably would agree, it takes two open minds to do that. when you’re done closing yours, please come back. there’s a place for everyone at this virtual table, there always will be.

   peace to YOU. may we hear your words again.

6. Ms. World, I am afraid you’ll have to be more specific. What is it that isn’t sitting well with you? I feel that we are very inclusive as a site. The bloggers on this site pretty much span the political spectrum. We also immediately delete any offensive comments left by random commentators. We obviously can’t control the opinions of every comment leaver. I think your belief that we wouldn’t have been as mad if a white person had made these comments is incorrect. I for one would have been just as mad.

7. I sent an email to Richard Lewis and am awaiting a response. Here is what I wrote.

   Richard, I have read a few of your emails underlining how outraged you are and that the matter has been dealt with. However I think that you have not done enough. I propose the following. 1. Find out a way to contact that call center support analyst and tender an unconditional apology to her. If the slur would have been made against you, I am sure that you would have appreciated a similar gesture. 2. Acknowledge the mistake that your channel made at the same exact stage, meaning apologise on radio. Do that and the matter will be set to rest.

   It takes a lot of integrity to apologize and I assume that you would rise to the demands.

   Neeraj

8. MsWorld

   I think your statement that we are being harder on this man because he is African American is unfair. I reckon if it was a white man we would be just as outraged and angry.

   Please dont stop posting here, either.

9. hi..star knows he couldnt have done this trick with an american. theyd eat him alive. so hes gone on to show off how funny he can be by picking on some poor unsuspecting woman/girl in india.the lengths people would go for some publicity is disgusting.

10. Thanks to all you Desi bloggers for giving the issue enough visibility.

    This was terrible action on part of the DJ – and all Desis must take appropriate action to show their outrage over it. ClearChannel and Power99 must show that they realize their mistake fully and take necessary action (sacking the show, IMO).

    Kirkland WA

11. Aren’t there laws to punish the reacist DJs. They seemed to be having fun with the caller.It is actually a case of harassment.

12. Ms. World, I think your comments are completely inappropriate here. You’re not the only african american reading/posting on this site. We should always be outraged by this type of behavior and its not because anyone is making a distinction between black/brown/white/yellow/red. We’re outraged because we are sick of this type of behavior… This is about a Human Being that was ridiculed and threatened to get a laugh. Anyone could have answered the phone that day–and we would still be angry.

13. The call was originally made during the Hartford Broadcast—sounded live to the listing audience. He made two calls regarding “Bead It”–the first woman hung up on him. You know the rest…

14. I think the fact that the racist remarks were made by an African American masquerading as a white person does make it worse than if a really white person was involved. You have a certain expectation of commiseration from other colored people. I think this a good case for complaining to the FCC.

    This has caught on in the Indian media too. A related item is here: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/987643.cms

15. I do think if a white person would have made the statements all of you would be mad but the venom wouldnt have been so hot. I do catch a hint of,How dare one of those niggers go off on one of my people!`

16. I got the following reply, but I still see Star & Buck wild on the website of power99.

    Dear Jimmy:

    Sorry for the delay in my reply as I just came across your email while checking my inbox. Please accept my apology for the use of the language you referenced in your email.

    All of us at WUSL-FM do not condone the use of offensive language in any form, on or off-air. This situation has been discussed with the people in question, the on-air hosts have apologized and been suspended, and I am confident nothing of this nature will happen again. I have also reprimanded the staff and reminded them that posting such material on our station’s Web site is not acceptable and will not happen again. I sincerely regret any discomfort this may have caused you or any friends and family. WUSL-FM (POWER-99), for many years, has been synonymous with being a helpful resource for our listeners and offering a great radio station to listen to, and my goal is to continue to build on that. Again I apologize to you personally for this and I understand your point of view. I do appreciate your taking the time to let me know your thoughts.

    Richard Lewis RVP & Market Manager

    Philadelphia, PA

    Dear Mr Lewis, …. …. Please clean this act by airing PSAs appropriately that speak out against the ignorance and hate that YOUR programming may potentially incite.

    Please be informed that, we strongly feel about this issue and will consider complaining to Federal Communications Commission (FCC) about this with the audio clip, if meaningful steps are not taken. http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/obscene.html I’m sure you are also compassionate about American values. Please do the right thing by making difference. I’m sure you care for the community by not promoting hatred.

    Thank You so much

    Jimmy

17. I asked my wife (shes white) on whether she had heard of Indians eating rats and she replied that she remembers her dad talking about watching a documentary on National Geographic in which they showed some Indians who ate rats. So maybe this view is more prevalent that we think. I asked another friend of mine and he had also seen that same documentary (maybe they show it over and over again) I have a feeling that this is where this idiot DJ got the idea of Indians being rat eaters.

18. Umm.. [editors note: The rest of this comment has been deleted, because I couldn’t understand if it was a question out of ignorance or a purposely bigoted comment]

19. excellent. now let’s rip on da muslims! 😀

20. [Deleted by administrator]

21. QUIT IT. No more blanket racist talk in here. It’s fucking stupid and it solves nothing. All it does is prove that you are no better a person than they are.

    What we all need to remember is that only certain PEOPLE are racist, not an entire ethnic group. Star is racist. ‘Indian’ above (whose comment i hope will be deleted by the time this posts) is racist. but that doesn’t mean that all black people or indians are racist. Just these particulars.

    so QUIT GENERALIZING.

    I see why Ms.World left. Please stop proving her right.

22. I think I speak for all Mutineers and rational humans when I ask for your civility here. We are ALL outraged. But we’re trying to act constructively. Hate speech is NOT constructive, nor is it welcome on this site. That doesn’t mean that we’re censoring you, telling you to take it like a bitch or turn the other cheek.

    We do appreciate irreverent, funny commentary.

    But the RACISM and BIGOTRY is neither of those things, and it is not cool. If you have something to say, please feel FREE to say it. If, however, it’s anti-muslim, anti-hindu, anti-branch davidian, anti-smurf, ANTI-BLACK, anti-Amreekan…please start your own blog and spew venom there.

    You don’t fight hate with hate; you fight it with righteous indignation, moral superiority and passionate activism.

    We will delete hate speech.

    This project was created for many noble reasons; the content of certain comments does not honour those beginnings, indeed it makes us sound like hypocrites who suck.

    If we want respect, not only must we demand it, we must conduct ourselves with it as well.

    Thank you.

23. why was jack’s comment not deleted?

24. dear “:p”,

    please see my post here. i sincerely hope that unequivocal statement puts an end to this unproductive, insulting chatter.

    can we PLEASE not get distracted? we’ve said it umpteen times; SM thinks hate speech sucks. also, every mutineer has a job AND other blogs, so kindly cut us some slack. we HAVE deleted the shittiest comments. we have NOT had TIME to parse all the others.

    back to the fight!

    A

25. it says right there in bold, “we will delete hate speech.” now that you have had the time to read my comment and the comment i was referring to AND make a defensive comment in response to it, why have you not deleted it? do you not consider it hate speech?

26. Sometimes the comfort of a common opinion makes for a mob.

    To all those who may have read the hate posts, as Andrea alluded to it in her post, mostly we are not like this only…:-)

27. Sometimes the comfort of a common opinion makes for a mob.

    To all those who may have read the hate posts, as Andrea alluded to in her post, mostly we are not like this only…:-)

28. to :p

    way to forget the point of all this. what’s more important to you, your agenda or what this blog is trying to do? there’s no malice here except yours.

29. I think why this call in the show was so popular with liseners was that it highlighted something every American can identify with. Perceived/real poor service from outsourcing. Just listen to how many times “Steena” calls the caller “maam”, when the caller is a male. Such perceived incompetence among outsourced workers is what the Americans are laughing at. It is clear that “Steena” is reading from the script and is not interacting with the caller. This outsourcing business is what peaves Americans who have to put up with foreigners who know nothing about the caller’s culture and cannot even speak in an accent that Americans can accept. I myself have gone through the horrors of dealing with outsourced operators. The lines are terrible most of the time. There is a lag between the conversation, and the operator on the other end does not even understand most of what I am saying half the time. And I am Indian. I now speak in Hindi or Tamil to these guys everytime I can identify that the operator is an Indian.

30. Like others, I got utterly disturbed by the racist comments of DJ.

    I am a student and most of the US schools are flooded with Indian students. I would suggest all the “Indian Students Association” express their opinions to Federal Communications Commission and owners of Clearchannel to tackle this issue. I would inform all those association I know and I request you to do the same Please post this issue in all the local internet postings Things like this should not happen to anyone again and we all have to make sure for that!!!

31. Sunil – I can understand your point about the “percieved/real poor service from outsourcing,” but I’m not sure that is an issue with Indian ability as much as it is a wake up call to companies who outsource.

    Everybody here knows that most educated and a lot of uneducated people in India can carry on a normal conversation in English with little difficulty. How many Americans do you know that could do the same in a non-native language? I was born in India, and sadly I can’t even speak my native language.

    The problem as I see it is that workers in Indian call centers are encouraged and even forced into incredibly fake and unnatural personalities while on the phone. Some even have to take accent classes and assume fake names so they can sound more “American.” I once talked to this rep who received my call by saying, “Hello, thank you for calling Dish Network. I am Prabh…I mean I am Frank. How may I help you?” Ridiculous.

    Outsourcing is to save money, obviously, but they feel that the changes they make in customer support should be transparent to their customers (naturally, people hate change). They want to have their cake and eat it too. And a lot fail miserably because they forget one of the cardinal fucking rules: Customers hate being deceived more than they hate change.

    Companies that outsource love to preach on and repeat talking points like “the new global economy” when defending themselves against outsourcing critics, but don’t seem to recognize that forcing people to change their fundamental cultures and personalities so they can appear more American is not, in any way, “global.”

    Obviously there’s a lot of animosity about outsourcing in the U.S. because people are losing jobs, which a lot of assholes like Star will hijack to further their totally unrelated agendas, but the companies that outsource could add a lot less fuel to the fire if they’d just accept that cultures in foreign countries might not be like their own.

32. Why should the caller adapt to another culture. He/She is calling a toll free number advertised for a US company in the US. Its the operator who should adapt to the customer. As tough as that sounds, thats the fact. Americans have little tolerance for foreign accents in their day to day lives. Its one thing to call a toll free number and have a foreign sounding voice greet you. Its quite another to get an unsolicited call and that too from a foreigner with a “funny accent” who has, in their eyes, taken away American jobs. Ofcourse the Indian operators are inviting abuse.

    Most Indians dont understand customer service the way Americans do. The idea that the customer is king is an alien concept to Indians who have not lived in the US.

    Just because someone on the other end speaks English does not mean that he/she is competent at his/her job. I had to call my insurance company to know the progress of my claim with them. It had been over 3 months and I needed the cash. I called them up and the call was routed to India. Those guys couldnt help me and finally they claimed that the check was sent out 2 months ago. I said I never received it and they just wasted my time for more than 3 weeks. I had to repeat my case to every new operator who took my call. Some of them even insisted that I send the check back so that they can send me another one! Thats how stupid the guys in India were. I finally got frustrated and insisted that I speak to an American operator in the US. I got my check about 2 months later. I pay through my nose for my health insurance and I have a right to competent service. I switched insurance companies when my policy expired and now insist that any troubleshooting hotline is in the US before I agree to buy the product.

    Most of the time these guys just dont understand technical issues. Ofcourse the employers are to be blamed for hiring such imbecilles who dont know their heads from their asses.

    I am not the only one who has gone through this. These incompetent fools in India are giving all of us Indians a very bad name. I think in time these jobs will come back to the US just as easily as they went to India.

33. Sunil: How is your experience unique to a call center in India vs. in Texas? I’ve had similar experiences with American customer service.

34. Sunil, I have had worse experiences with call centers in the US. Indians are not incompetent. The Indian call center operators are more educated in general when compared to American call center operators. These are ‘good’ jobs in India and have mostly college educated Indians. In the US, these $8 an hour jobs are usually filled by people who have barely passed high school.

35. What I am trying to say is that these people are not familiar with American work culture. They do not understand the concept of customer service the way Americans do. An outsourced operator in India cannot relate to many situations the way an operator stateside can. Plus many people want the operator to understand a joke or two. The Indians certainly cant understand that. It is possible that it is a matter of giving them better training. All I know is that my heart sinks whenever I hear an Indian at the other end, knowing that my problem will not be solved in any way. And my blood boils knowing that this Indian will spoil our name in the US.

    Just listen to the call placed to Steena. She addresses a male caller as “maam”. She does not listen to him in any way. She’s just repeating her lines flashed on her screen. Thats not customer service. The guy who called her never even ordered the quick bead machine….and like a moron she just says “I’ll place the order”. I want to tell you that just because the person on the other end speaks English does not mean anything if he/she does not understand the culture of the caller. It makes a big difference. I’d be saying the same thing if the call was outsourced to Mexico, Ireland, or Timbuktoo.

36. Sunil…

    I have heard the same comments and reservations about foreign physicians. That they cannot understand how the culture works. That they possibly could not give the emotional comfort that the relatives would require. That the cultural chasm would be too large. This generalization, as is yours about the call center workers, is not completely accurate. There are cultural differences and it takes time to overcome them. Some are better at it than are others. Your ire would be better directed at Steena, if you must.

    Outsourcing is not being done out of magnanimity. It is a pragmatic business concern. If the same business environment continues, callers are going to hear a lot of other accents and they are going to live with it. Foreign physicians are here because they fill an academic and service need that is not being filled by people here. People have learned to live with that too..

    Apropos the cultural elements, these are a pleasant addition but are they absolute necessities? The absolute elements are a resolution of your problem and polite and pleasant behaviour. Is it really necessary that the person talk about baseball or the weather? If they dont solve your problem consistenly, your dissatisfaction is justifiable.

    A friend of mine who works at a hospital in Boston talks about an opthalmolgist who borders on the abusive. The opthalmologist is an American who can trace back his lineage for a significant portion of the years Caucasians have inhabited this country. He is culturally inappropriate but I dont hear my friend regretting belonging to the same color because of his behaviour. He just puts it down to “him” being a jerk. The opthalmologist continues in business because he is very good at the narrow field he specializes in and therefore he fills a niche. I think Indians and Chinese and every other nation involved in outsourcing will continue to be a part as long as they fill a need.

37. Word…We are minorities in the US. The bad actions of 1 member of our community is enough to give us all a bad name. I represent my country of origin and behave as well as I can in the US. If I engage in anti-social behavior or am a general pain in the ass, other Americans view me as that and the next Indian who walks in the door after me will be dismissed as an anti-social lunatic and general pain in the ass before being given a chance to prove himself. In India I wouldnt give a crap because everyones Indian. I am an individual there. Here I am an Indian and my actions reflect on my Indian brothers and sisters and vice versa.

38. This really is the last time you will hear from me on this topic. Happy M.L.K. Day! I love Dr. King because the civil rights movement has changed my life. I’m digressing, so please bare with me.

    I went to a shrine to say a prayer commemorating this holiday and it hit me that I needed to get some things straight with you all because I can’t give my thanks for Dr. King and the civil rights movement without saying a prayer of gratitude for Gandhi’s and his brethren who used a non-violent philosophy to get the British out of India.

    Basically, sometime last week I wrote a post noting my frustration with the hate spewed towards African-Americans regarding the actions of one of us (the Power99 incident). I also let it be known that I didn’t feel this was a very inclusive space for someone who wasn’t South Asian or white.

    I want to clarify that I wasn’t pointing figures at the founders of SepiaMutiny. I also didn’t reach my conclusions based on snap judgements. I’ve been reading SepiaMutiny for awhile, long before I ever posted any comments. Lately, I found some of the commentary to be filled with hatred regarding various ethnic and religious groups, instead of the humorous, sometimes thoughtful and irreverent dialogue that I’ve grown to enjoy reading here.

    I don’t consider myself some oversensitive African American who can’t stomach criticism about my people but I am a very isolated person of color living in rural Japan who probably spends too much time reading on the internet which leads to a distorted perspective. I completely understand that Sepia Mutiny wasn’t created for me in mine (really 😉 I’m not your demographic and that’s ok since I usually don’t care about these things and always seem to show up to the party uninvited and make myself comfortable. I’ve digressed again.

    I wish you great victory in fighting your battles and feel free to count me in because as Dr. King Jr. noted, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.” He was speaking from a jail cell in Birmingham but I think his words are just as salient in today’s globalized world.

    Peace! Ms. World

39. Dear Ms. World –

    please don’t let the haters get you down. Unfortunately we do have comments from people who are not very inclusive in their thinking, but believe me, those of us who created this space created it for anybody who was interested in South Asian culture, not just those with brown skin.

    Peace

40. That woman better get fired. Oooooh! That makes me so mad.

41. are you trying to say rats aren’t eaten anywhere in India? yeah right!

42. i don’t condole what Star said, however, i think a big fuss is being made out of this small issue.

    firstly, he threatened to choke Steena. How was he going to choke her? through the telephone? come on, be real.

    secondly, he call her a “rat eater.” that was a stereotype that he was naively subscribing to. Steena herself may have never eaten a rat, but that doesn’t me no indians eat rats. actually, a sizable amount of Indians eat rats, on the other hand, a sizable amount of indians consider rats sacred. you nor i, nor Star, don’t know whether Steena is someone who sees the rat as something to be palated or praise.

    lastly, Star and Buc Wild should be understood for what they are- two bighead, weedsmoking, ignorant, ratings-loving, idiotic assholes, who call themselves RJs. don’t waste time discussing them, they don’t worth it.

43. they don’t worth it.

    …

    ah, forget it. too easy. 😉