As Manish recently noted, three Indian-Americans were awarded the Rhodes Scholarship this year. One of them is Ian Desai of the University of Chicago. Ian plans to use his time to make a comparison of the Iliad and the Mahabharata. From The Tribune of India:
A New Yorker, Desai graduated this year with a degree in ancient studies. In 2001, he tried to retrace the mythic journey of Jason and the Argonauts through Greece, Turkey and the former Soviet Republic of Georgia.
He traveled by bus, motor cycle, car and on foot. To get around, he used a little Greek, broken Turkish and the kindness of strangers. He even negotiated with Turkish fishermen to spend 10 days on their trawler.
At one point he and Michael Newton, a photographer who chronicled the trip, were warned by a Georgian train conductor that they were in bandit country.
“WeÂ’re very proud of him,” said Susan Art, Dean of Students of the University of ChicagoÂ’s undergraduate college. “Ian is a remarkable individual who has contributed so much to the university. I think his success does justice to the quality of the education we offer,” Art added. Desai hopes to build upon his undergraduate research that has explored a rarely undertaken subject: a comparison of the Iliad and the Mahabharata.
Now to me, mythology-geek that I am, this sounds like a fascinating study. I Googled the terms “Mahabharata and Illiad” to see what came up and this review of the Mahabharata which draws parallels to the Illiad was one of the first. I suppose all Myth is to a great deal interrelated. Joesph Campbell’s Hero With a Thousand Faces does a good job of exploring that hypothesis. In any case I hope to hear more about this in a few years when he finishes.
Sounds like a great subject. But the Mahabharat lives in ways that the Iliad doesnt. Even though Homers epic is a foundation stone of Western literature, Mahabharat has a living vitality in the hearts and worship of Hindus today, the ‘common’ man in the villages, shanty towns, alleyways all the way up to the mansions of India.
That is a remarkable aspect of the Hindu epics. That is why they are alive and manifest and a part of the antiquity of Indian culture and civilisation.
The Mahabharata lives in – no exaggeration OK I will be careful – about a few 100 versions/renditions/recitals. Apart from the classical textual versions in our regional languages – about eight – there are many upakavyas or subsidiary versions that starting from local narrations have grown into huge stories themselves. The most popular of these is the Arjuna Sanyasa kalam – the “one year” Arjuna spent as a sanyasi to “atone” for interrupting his eldest brother Yuddhishtra. There are about 6 tales related to this period each of which is suffiicient for a full length movie. The Vyasabharatam is actually an essential compilation of the 1000s of tales from every part of the Indian and SE Asian neighborhood of the period between 1500 and 500 BCE. A complete documentation of these myths would be a life’s work for the finest team of classicists you can assemble. If you have friends from Indinesia (as I have had at school) chat them up about the MB and you will learn things that you never knew of. Incidentally the MB and Ramayana are taught in public school in Indinesia in a way that integrates ideas of Indonesian nationhood, Islam (the Pancapandavas are like the five principles of Islam), Indonesia’s Hindu and Indian heritage (Is there something like South Asia? sneered my friend)
abhi, you know how much i’m into symbolism. can’t wait for this guy’s research to come out. should be pretty cool.
The Indian epics, esp the Mahabharat could be a great epic — far more color, depth, twists and turns than any of Hollywood’s serials (LOTR, Star Wars) or the puerile stuff like Troy.
Don’t go by the trashy soaps that have been made so far.
What’s needed is cutting-edge special effects, slick production values and half-decent actors..
When I saw the LOTR flicks, I was way underwhelmed.. and baffled by their immense popularity.. they seem infantile compared to the desi myths http://www.stringinfo.com/pkblog/archives/002102.html
Prashant, I am sure you meant well but comparing ANYTHING to the holy trilogy a.k.a. Star Wars just insn’t fair. Admitedly I don’t know enough about the Mahabharat but I know enough to know that it doesn’t have light sabers nor does it have a character analagous to Boba Fett. I think that it is precisely the “twists and turns” you mention that turned me off to the Mahabharat episodes I suffered through as a kid, which struck me as infantile. Its all a matter of perspective I guess.
LOTR the book is overrated. Thanks to Pete Jackson for fleshing out the story without changing it in any way and making the story a much better thing than it it is as a book. I am amazed that people can read meaning into LOTR and compare it to the classics and go even as far as to find parallels in it with the Bible!
I’ve always wondered why people automatically give more deference to a story out of religion than they do to one that is a work of fiction out of an ordinary mortal’s mind. From a literary standpoint I don’t think the Bible is all that interesting. There are several other religious texts which are also quite boring and not nearly as engrossing as say, the Da Vinci Code. I think perhaps than many people’s piety clouds there judgement of what is “overrated” and what is good literature, and causes them to make what they think are objective statments.
PB, if it was the foundation stone of Western literature then wouldn’t it still, by your logic, be influencing peoples lives today? I think the Iliad and Odyessy (sp?) were influencial epic poems, but neither one could be called the defining piece by which 2500 years worth of life was defined by; by the same token Mahabharat, Gita, aren’t as influencial as you think either. I would be interested to read this when it’s completed as well, both books have certain similar mythological aspects, but how well they compare…?
Shiva, at a younger age the LOTR of the rings was a phenomal series of books, but trying to read them as adult is sometimes a chore. Perhaps I just don’t have the same sense of wonder and/or imagination as I used to have.
I’m sure a lot of research has been done over this subject.
The cause of my enthusiasm is what was the the persistent fact for the sophistication in the technology. I’ve heard and seen a good lot of the advancements in the weaponary, for instance, some warrior murmurs a few verse of shlokas and a mass desctructing weapon is available at his/her ready disposal.
I’m keen on knowing what exactly all that was.
I’ve read a few books from Dr. P.V. Vartak and stunningly realities get unleashed.
Regards, Sameer Oak.
mahabharat is the all time great epic without doubts but the tendency of britishers and other historians to put it in the mere myth status. it is rightly said “if anything is found here you will find it anywhere but if it is not found here you will not find it anywhere”. around 100,000 verses and 18 parvas it is really the epic of the world.
Without doubt, the two epics influenced the world. Before the birth of Christianity, both the Iliad and Mahabharat acted as primary religious sources, as the devout would use interpretation to find the “will of the gods.” However, Mahabharat does not relate closely to the Iliad, making the entire search to find similarities pointless.
Consider this:
A comparison of of Ramayana and the Iliad–both which talk of war between two kings and a queen.
–Though this has probably been done numerous times, consider this:
The events in the Iliad and the Ramayana are the same. In both stories, two kings fight for one queen. In addition, first the king to marry the queen wins the war. Lastly, both stories mention that the winning side needed to cross a body of water to a smaller kingdom/city/country (Lanka, or Troy). These important details may seem too general, howevever “time” forces mankind to fabricate stories due to lack of documentation and the reliance of verbal communication.
If the Indians today beleive that their story took place in India, while the Greek (long ago, before Christianity) would have believed that the Iliad took place in Troy (Modern-day Turkey), which one’s correct? Greece has archeological evidence of the city Troy, while Indians have older skriptures, and some archeological evidence of “rocks” between India and Shri Lanka.
There is, as I recall, a body of work ranging back over decades which explores supposed parallels between Achilles and Arjuna.
I think the Mahabharat is one of the greatest and longest epics ever. I also think the Iliad is good but in comparison to the Mahabharat, it’s nothing. It is more profound than any other epic and so many people believe it and base their beliefs on it. I am glad that Ian Desai is researching into it in a greater level and understanding and would like to read about his ‘findings’.
Also remember that the Mahabharat was written long before the Iliad, so some aspects are likely to be the same. as Anuj says there is more likely to be a better comparison between Ramayan and the Iliad. But I still believe that the Iliad came later, as it was written later. To believe whether they are myths or not is up to you, and perhaps evidence isn’t enough.
I am currently in the middle of reading ‘The Iliad’ and my mind cannot help but constantly draw comparisons to the Mahabharata. It seems extremely odd to me that two discrete civilizations living thousands of miles apart have come up with similar literature – or rather, literature of the same form that covers similar subject matter.
That said, I also cannot help but think that the Mahabharata is superior to the Iliad in almost every way. The Iliad for the most part, is a mere battle narrative. The heroes and other characters are generally introduced on the battlefield itself and these introductions are followed up with narratives of the characters either killing or being killed.
After reading some of both, I’d posit that the Iliad is a simpler, more compact/concise rendition of the ramayana, and so there was either an indian influence on the ancestors of the greeks (i.e. pelasgians, dorians, etc.) or some of the greeks ancestors themselves were migrants from india. Assuming that the stories are based on some events that actually place, they are a people’s history, or the world’s history. Also, it would make sense that the story would get simplified among people’s who didn’t have writing to record these things, and so had to memorize the stories as one poem and recite them. I look forward to a comprehensive comparison. Food for thought, consider that Troy was a colony or a vassal of Atlantis (The sea people), the phonological similarity between between Lanka & (at)Lanta is of interest.
The biggest thing that come out of it is that Ramayan is nothing but the copy of Illiad. Homer wrote Illiad sometimes 3000 years ago WHEREAS Ramayan and Mahabharat was written about 1000-1500 years thereafter. The histoical evidence suport the invasion of Aryans on India. Ramayan appear to be carbon copy of conceopt from Illiad vis a vis deep affection of two brothers, kidnapping the wife by the ruler of an island country, war betwween them so on and so off. This further confims the theft of Greek literature by so called Indian writers with a view to please the invaders and imposition of the same as religious text. It is strange tha Iliad is never taken as a part of the religion unlike the Ramayan in India. This further proves the copy cat nature of Indians to please those in power.-Jogi
Actually all ancient cultures had similiar stories..so to say its a copy is unfair…yes there are some key and significant similiarities…don’t forget the guys who wrote it and brought Aryan values to Dravidic India were from the Russian steppes…so there will be strong similiarities….ed Gilgamesh precedes bible but is the Noah Ark story..if you wash the passion of Christ where thet speak Aramac, you will find words such as Abba, Umi, khoon…coicedence? Or eveidence that people and ideas move around??
I don’t see why you should submit to any of his points. His argument makes no sense. He states that the Ramayana and Mahabharata were written about 1500 years ago. That’s just wrong. Homer wrote the Illiad around the 8th century BC. The Mahabharata and the Ramayana are generally dated to around the same time period, although Hindus would argue that they are much older based on scriptural interpretation.