That is the question that an article on Indolink.com poses:
…East Indian or Asian Indian, or Indian American or Indo-American or Desi. Or, to remove the slightest doubt, it may even require a mouthful as in “East Indian American” or “Asian Indian American” or “South Asian Indian American.”
Okay, I am already confused. I thought I knew my identity but now I am not sure. Labels matter to me. But…it gets even more confusing:
The ultimate dilemma is that in Britain and East Africa he is an Asian. In Russia, Southeast Asia, and Europe and Fiji he is still an Indian. In the Caribbean he is an East Indian. In Canada he may be an Indo-Canadian. But in America he can never be “Indian,” while at the same time his Asian identity is oftentimes suspect – thanks to the average American’s geographic illiteracy.
Whoa, can somebody please stop the room from spinning? Let’s go to the history books and see how it came to this. What were we “originally?”
The earliest report of The Senate Commission on Immigration (1911) by H. A. Millis was entitled “East Indian immigration to the Pacific Coast states.” Earlier too, in 1947, Gurdial Singh wrote in Sociological and Social Research on ‘East Indians in the U.S.’ And the very first detailed study of Indian immigrants in America can be found in H. Brett MelendyÂ’s 1974 book ‘Asians in America’ in which people from the subcontinent were referred to exclusively as ‘East Indians.’
The rest of this article is an interesting read filled with fun facts that I urge SM readers to take a look at. You will be admired at the next cocktail party for your new knowledge.
brown.
Yep. Also check out this SM post for more confusion:
Brown is imprecise, it also covers Latinos.
Pimp.
NOT brown so not sure how i should weigh in …
but ‘east indian’ isn’t even an ideal solution since you may find people who think of the geographically east part of india itself..and ‘desi’ seems to be a term used by and for, not about.
i always end up saying, ‘indian.. like, you know, from india’
there are also the ‘other’ indians, the native americans, who vehemently object to both the indian (we’re not) and native american (america was imposed on us) labels… canada calls them First Nations… the term in US i think is First Peoples, being politically correct. There’s also the annoyance that all tribes are lumped into one category.
/la luna esta en mi piel
East Indians are from Bengal! Punjabis are West Indians!
Screw Latinos. They have “Latino” and “Hispanic” (and for Mexican Americans “Chicano”). We picked Brown first, and we’re not gonna give it up without a fight!
I’ve always liked the line from “Good Will Hunting”:
Indian…dot, not feathers
-D
people from trinidad are REALLY west indians….
Brown has scatological connotations (California water conservation slogan: ‘If it’s brown, flush it down.’) Plus there are Latino rappers called A Lighter Shade of Brown.
Black has negative connotations for that community (black-hearted, blackened my name). White, in contrast, generally means pure and clean– except in Indian culture, where leading a colorless life is the traditional state, and dress color, of widowhood! 🙂
Dot-not-feather is funny but crude. I like desi, it’s our own term in our own languages, and it’s pungent, it connotes homey, bro. Only issue is whether it means the same in South Indian languages.
Second choice, probably South Asian American, but it’s lengthy and awkward. Brits nabbed Asian early, they have a shorter sobriquet.
This is classic marketing, by the way, check out Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind.
Pimp.
Actually, Jagjit, I think you mean THUG.
except in Indian culture, where leading a colorless life is the traditional state, and dress color, of widowhood!
in most asian cultures actually, don’t be so browno-centric 🙂 in fact, china + india means half humanity thinks white is the color of death.
and yeah, brown is imprecise, latinos/hispanics/whatever have taken it, but i think we need to take it back!
Hmm…Razib shouldn’t we hear an indignant denunciation of any group identity, even one so de-racinated as ‘brown’, from you ? 😉
Kumar
Hmm…Razib shouldn’t we hear an indignant denunciation of any group identity, even one so de-racinated as ‘brown’, from you ? 😉
sometimes people ask me what i define myself as if they want to label me. i say brown (they don’t want to call me ‘indian’ since i was born in bangladesh and stuff like that). i am brown, so it is a pretty accurate definition physically. when my girlfriend mentions me to her relatives, and they ask ‘where i’m from’ (my name isn’t ‘american’ you see) she’s like ‘he’s brown,’ and leaves it at that. eventually they puzzle their way through what she means, and yeah, it is imprecise, but i really don’t mind that much of people think that means i’m mixed-race black/white or latino.
anyway, modify to ‘group identity politics‘ and i would get agitated, but group identity cultural associations that are free form and inward looking don’t get me concerned. my problems with group identity organizations is that sometimes they interface with the rest of society and when one of them stakes out some position people start triggering generalization modules in their mind and joe-schmo might start bracketing me in with people with people a hell of a lot less unique & cool than i (IMHO).
analogy: brown people starting up their mosques & temples in american communities isn’t that big of a deal (at least from my angle). but, if the mosques & temples start ‘speaking out’ as organs of the community to the non-brown community i think that would agitate a lot of people. everyone has their own line of course about what is too public and high profile.
Cross-posted from my blog at Three Guys:
How about this: If you’re referring generally to people whose ancestry traces to the subcontinent, go with “South Asian American.” If, for some reason, you want to focus on the precise nationality of one’s ancestry, use nation-state specific terms like “Indian American” or “Pakistani American.” Most of the time, I try to use the former, because frankly, I don’t much care for the artificial boundaries that separate the ethnically and culturally related peoples of the subcontinent. But there may be times where those artifical boundaries are relevant — for example, if discussing the response of “Pakistani Americans” to a meeting between Presidents Bush and Musharraf.
Neither of these sets of terms, meanwhile, need be confused with “American Indian” or “Native American,” the two most prominent labels used for people native to our country. Incidentally, I recently discovered that “American Indian” tends to be preferred among the people themselves.
Simple enough?
Dot not feather, crude as it may seem, is appropriate. Only in a small persons mind does this moniker seem demeaning or racist. Desi is all well and good but it doesn’t represent all of us and for someone who sadly has lost touch with their roots, it doesn’t mean anything at all. In my line of work I get asked all the time what my ethnicity is, and when i say “Indian-Dot not Feather” it spurs on more intelligent conversation. We should all have a sense of humor about who we are. Don’t take offense. If you are confident in yourself, it won’t matter how you are described- Brown, Indian American, Asian American, South East Asian American or Dot.
The other more crude way to differentiate Indians is “are you a woo-woo or a hindu”
Hispanics and Latinos are brown. But Asian Indians are also brown.
Peace between the browns( hispanic, latinos, asian indians)
You know what , the term is SOUTH ASIAN. I’m sick to death of people only thinking anything oriental is asian. It’s not. -__-