going to graduate school in DC with a bunch of students FROM india destroyed most of my preconceived notions about the motherland. this article put them right back 😉 :
Most Indian men expect their wives to be virgins before marriage and would refuse to wed a woman who admits to having had premarital sex, said an opinion poll in a weekly news magazine on Saturday.
About 72 per cent of 2,499 men surveyed in 11 Indian cities expected their wives to be virgins before marriage, the poll published in the latest edition of India Today magazine said.
An overwhelming 77 per cent of those surveyed in the country, known for its sexually conservative culture, said they would reject women who admitted to having had premarital sex.
my favourite line of the article:
…According to the magazine, “Virginity continues to be confused with chastity (by the Indian male).”
my least favourite line in the article:
In what could set alarm bells ringing for AIDS prevention groups, only 38 per cent of men felt condoms were “a must use” while 24 per cent said, they “spoiled” sexual pleasure.
i think people are lying about whether they want to do Ash:
Six per cent of the men voted former Miss World and Bollywood star Aishwarya Rai their fantasy woman while 16 per cent idolised acquaintances and others.
like they’d turn down someone in a victoria’s secret runway outfit. pshaw:
Fifty-four per cent of respondents said their favourite attire for women was the traditional Indian dress, the sari, with 38 per cent voting for the salwar-kameez or long shirt and pyjamas. Just eight per cent voted for Western attire -bikinis, skirts and trousers.
When it comes to polls, many people (not just Indians) give the answer they think is correct. So in India, where virginity is still a big deal, men will say it is important, and women will say they are. In America, where a man’s manliness is questioned if he’s not screwing a different woman every night – he will exaggeate his experience to pollsters. Women in America, as Chris Rock observed so effectively, “…only count their boyfriends. They don’t count all those miscellaneous d* they’ve had, like the guy from the club, or that night they f** Bobby Brown, or that guy from Jamaica – it’s another country, that doesn’t count.”
One more thing – I went to grad school in DC as well. Most of the Indian-born students seemed pretty ordinary. Some were married, and those that weren’t seemed pretty respectful to the opposite sex. It was the Arab students that had a rep for being players.
I’m not surprised. They only way to get rid of such selfish and outdated ideas is to put an end to arranged marriages. It always amazes me that an Indian man with no personality, looks or social skills can ask mummy and daddy to find him a beautiful, chaste virgin… and they do. To top that, she also comes along with sizeable cash, jewelry and home appliances.
Shame on those who perpetuate this system.
Aforementioned man with no personality, looks or social skills is often busting his ass to bring home a paycheck, buy a house and get his future family financially stable.
And it’s a great safety net for those who really aren’t into or good at dating.
That said, coerced arranged marriages are vile.
Manish: What does bringing home a paycheck have to do with getting married and starting a family? Financial stability is only one of the components of a happy relationship. Why not change the social structure so a woman can also bust her ass and make as much as the man. This way, money is out of the equation.
And let’s take away that safety net. It does more bad than good. Then maybe men may actually realize that they need to bring something more to the table than just a good job, family connections or a green card.
T, not to post out of turn, but the fact remains that a social structure exists where bringing home a paycheck has everything to do with getting married and starting a family. You can argue its merits, but it’s undeniably prevalent in society.
I don’t agree with forced arranged marriages, but let’s not pretend that there aren’t women out there who voluntarily sign on to the notion.
There are women taking away the safety net, and taking money out of the equation, both in India and America, but are we a majority at this point? I doubt it. So, I find it difficult to fault men for feeling that the good job and family connections are selling points, especially if they’ve decided to go the arranged marriage route.
Relationships as many other things are dependent on what the individual wants. If an individual wants a guy with a green card, job, and financial stability, then that is their choice. If more than that need to be brought to the table then that is a choice too.
I would second Manish in saying coerced or forced decisions conduct injustice. Plenty of people in arranged marrage or ‘match-made’ marriages go on to have a very balanced and fulfilling lives with both parties working to put food on the table.
As long as people are making their own choice (Free will) I have no issues with the arranged marriage concept.
I agree though that people in India tend to confuse chastity with virginity. You want someone who is faithful and honest. Having your virginity has nothing to do with those qualities. Someone could marry a virgin and have their life turn into “I married an Axe murderer” quite easily.
There’s not much free will when it’s bachelor #1, 2, or 3. Lots of girls resist until they have no choice. To begin with, they don’t have much of an opportunity to meet someone on their own because even talking to someone of the opposite sex is forbidden. Many get married because parents coerce them in other ways.
This is a system created by males and primarily for the benefit of men. Take away arranged marriage and you’d get rid of dowry, dowry deaths, and the abuse of women in the hands of husbands and in-laws. And don’t even tell me that arranged marriages don’t end in divorceÂ…
I’m sure there are a few arranged marriages which are wonderful but that’s only because those people are the kind would have been happy even otherwise.
Americans may not have dowry in the Indian sense, but they do have the tradition of the bride’s family paying for the wedding. Considering that the average wedding now costs what a house used to 20 years ago, that is no small sum.
As for the notion that money should play less of a role in selecting a husband – how many bus drivers, custodians, delivery guys do you see being sought after by women? Not many TV shows called, “Who Wants to Marry the Mailman?” As unromantic as it is to think about it, the importance of financial security is in a woman’s self interest, since she needs to consider the cost of child-rearing. The phenomenon of woman using marriage to improve their social standing has been a subject of literature for ages.
There is a big difference between a woman making a choice for herself and someone making that choice for her.
That’s what I’m talking about.
Interesting discussion once again. Just cannot stop myself from typing. I saw successful arranged marriages and love marriages both in my life. I think arranged marriages are good for people who are shy and dont like meeting people and for people who live with their parents all their lives . Parents know their kids so so well that they can decide who is right for their girl or boy. And they work very well ( my sis and cousin sisters had arranged marriages when they were between 19-21 yrs old).. reasons for success of these arranged marriages- the girls are still childish with no preformed personalities and they grew up with their husbands and their husbands hobbies and thinking become theirs since they donot meet any other men except their brothers or fathers before marriage and husbands also sometimes dont have preformed personalities so they basically adapt easily and they grow up together.. They never met anyone else except that special someone they marry. So they fall in love easily, only once in their lives and remain in love with their hubbies/wives as long as they live and adore them.. But unfortunately in india arranged marriages also come with evils like dowry, bride burning, inlaws illtreating girls,husbands abusing wives,no economic freedom etc., which is the sad.But arranged marriages in upper middle class families where the families are broad minded work pretty good. on love marriages Love marriages are good for people who are mature, who know who they are , can think clearly and are independent ( my parents and my aunt had love marraiges in late 1960’s) and they all are successful marriages too. They are no divorces in my family the last 100 years.. those are love marriages between mature people who know they have to compromise, adjust and make choices mutually consulting each other and have mutual respect and love for each other. And since basis of marriage should be love one feels for one another, if u start a marriage after falling in love , it can be more successful. All those marriages were more successful compared to modern day marraiges because life was much simpler then, there were no egalatarian relationships, most women compromised and remained at homes while the men earned money and did outside chores. Again here also there is a beautiful balance of divided labor..these women are happy and want to be housewives and concentrate on homes and they dont want to be career oriented and made their choices like all my sisters . Kids in these families are emotionally more stable because they have a mom at home always there for them, there to listen to them and give them support as compared to working mothers in modern world, day cares and communication gap between parents and kids and psychological problems. In today’s world we all have more choices, we can go for arranged marriages or go the non traditional way where we get to meet more men and women than our parents met. And most of us dont marry so young, so we are giving ourselves a chance to be unique personalities which is great. We slowly get to know what we are really looking for by experimenting. Sometimes thats good where u choose a person after meeting a lot of people who is much closer to ur dream mate/ideal partner, sometimes that is too confusing and people tend to carry emotional baggages and cannot give their partners all their love.
But if u are mature and with a preformed personality and still going for an arranged marriage as some people who still do it, then u choose someone based on photographs or horoscopes or family background because those are the most important things for u than emotional or mental connection. Not everyone wants an emotional/intellectual connection before marriage. these people feel that emotional bondage develops between two people after marriage. Here u are taking a risk. But people like these go with a mental makeup that no matter what happens they will stick to their marriages and make them work. It all depends on what kind of person u are and what is important to u. Choose a kind of marriage that suits ur personality. And social evils that come with any marriage like dowry, bride burning, husbands abusing wives, inlaws abusing daughter in laws, inlaws abusing son in laws all are bad and should be condemned. there are advantages and disadvantages in both systems. But in todays world which is a lot more demanding where cost of living is going higher, life is more complicated, its hard to live on single person’s income. So both women and men need to work. And todays modern women like me feel that we are as intelligent as men and why should we waste our potentials sitting at home. And there are advantages to this too..Probably modern girls like me will be able to provide a wider range of choices for our kids than our moms by providing our kids better oppurtunities though we might not be able to spare as much time as our moms did for us. or girls like me might be housewives for sometime until our kids grow up if needed compromising and adjusting wisely. Success of marriage doesnot depend on whether its arranged or its a love marriage, it depends on individuals and how much they are ready to compromise to make a marriage work.
And u choose a system of marriage which suits ur personality. And financial stability is important for both the guy and the girl doesnot matter if u are good looking or rely on financial security as a bait to attract proposals. So having jobs, owning houses , bank balances are good and personally I feel people should not rush into marriages without achieving all that. Reasons it takes a lot to keep marriages going and raising family/kids is not all that cheap. Its better to be well prepared before getting into all that stuff rather than struggling after marriage to meet ends meet. Divorce rates are going up because of job pressures, personality disaggreements, lack of time , long distance relationships sometimes because of various reasons, etc., Sometimes financial pressures can ruin marriages, u cannot survive on love alone , u need to feed urself, ur partner if they are dependent and ur kids too. moderation in everything is good.
Prakruti: Nicely said. You have some valid points and I’m not trying to put down people who have had arranged marriages. My parents had an arranged marriage and spent a wonderful life together and loved each other passionately for almost 50 years before my mom passed away a few years back. My dad is now only half the man he was and misses her terribly. However, I’ve found that their relationship is more the exception than the rule.
By its very nature, arranged marriage is tilted in favor of the man. That was okay in the past where society was structured in another way and women did not work. It’s very different today, and going by that poll, it looks like men in India still have very archaic ideas about women which doesn’t coincide with the reality of modern life. And this in spite of the fact that many Indian men enjoy porn (which is now available very easily) and the company of “loose” women before they decide to send out for that virgin bride. Or the Indian guy who lives here and dates American women but goes back to India and expects a bride who has never slept with another man. It’s an awful double standard.
Is it even possible that half the women in India are virgins when they get married. I seriously doubt that. From what IÂ’ve seen, young Indian women enjoy sex as much as anyone else. This means there are a lot of pissed-off men on their wedding night — and guess who they’re going to take it out on. WouldnÂ’t bride burning be the expected sequel to this story?
personally, i think it’s better that this arranged marriage system is demolished. I’m an indian american, and from my own experience, I remember how many girls would have to lie, cheat, and deceive their indian parents so that they could date the boy they wanted to date, and i’m not talking about boys that were losers, but very well-off men as well. We’re very closed-minded as a society, and we must change. IF parents give their kids proper guidance on choosing a good partner, chances are they definitely will make a wise choice. However, controlling their lives won’t make things better. Moreover, many indians I know of personally were or are in unhappy marriages, so don’t say that arranged marriages work better than love marriages, because not all do. India may look modernized on the outside, with it’s wonderful computer and technology going on, but socially, we really do have a long way to go. India and our part of the world is still backward in many ways, and we’ve a long journey ahead of us before we can call ourselves a modern, sophisticated country like one in the US or Europe.
Very superficial article.
There are many people who opt for arranged marriage because they have been brought up in a closed system, and either shy or not enough opportunity to meet the other sex. Also, arranged marriage is not necessarily forced marriage – it simply a partner found out with search and help from relatives. The boy or girl can say no to a choice and wait for the next one.
You are saying that arranged marriage is only good for men and not women? This is also a vague statement. I know many friends who had to marry girls who were not their best choice and compromise with many things later. The girls who were on the top of their list had turned them down in the “selection” process.
You are saying that only Indian man wants virgin spouse? The average Indian woman would never want a man who have extra-marital sex experience. It is mutual. That is natural in India and also SEVERAL ASIAN COUNTRIES (arranged marriage also exist in many Asian/Islamic countries).
You seem to like a culture based on FREE SEX on USA experience where men and women have slept with a dozen partners and even after marriage have casual extra-marital sex and dont care a damn. Sorry, I dont want my culture to be degenerate like that and a majority of Indians would reject it.
sanker:
who are you replying to with these statements of yours? simply typing “you are saying” several times doesn’t indicate whom the “you” you take issue with is.
What’s wrong if a guy who is a virgin himself expects his bride to be a virgin before marriage? As you know, most Indian men are also virgins before marriage. When a virgin guy marries a girl to find out that she is not a virgin but she lied, he rejects her, and I think that is perfectly okay! A girl who is not a virgin but getting into an arranged marriage should be honest about it. I think, T, you need to be a little more rational.
Would a sexually experienced individual really want to be with someone with no experience anyway? Besides the possible fetish of wanting to be with a virgin, would a guy/girl want to be with someone who didn’t know how to kiss, tease, make love? Perhaps the ‘experienced’ will end up scorning the ‘chaste’.
If anything I would think arranged marriages work for the woman better in the long term. In a “free market” system, a woman with beauty has an enormous upper hand on a homelier woman. And in a diverse society we would see ethnic groups with higher proportions of homelier women like indians and african-americans be left out. Not to mention even the most stunning women start losing their beauty rapidly at age 30. And of course, in the age of the pre-nup a 40 year old man who has wealth can acquire a new 22 year old girlfriend and dispose of his 33 year old spouse at the first sign of cellulite. The “free market” mating system of the US works far better for men, especially wealthy men.
Would you consider the use of “emotional blackmail” part of a forced arranged marriage?
The UK has been taking some serious steps to curb forced marriages, but the US hasn’t really done anything. I wonder why?
Just curious what you all think…
prakrutis argument that arranged marriages are good for some, doesnt stick with me. your saying ‘love’ marriages are only for the independant and mature women? if women are not ready to create their own relationships they probably should be left to develope until they are ready to meet someone, it doesnt mean that just because they are shy at that ONE moment in time, an arranged marriage is the best thing to do – why not wait? i mean if a women has no ‘preformed’ character then it probably means that they need more time to experience life, not that they are bad candidates for finding their own partner. from my perspective i see arranged marriages as rather selfish and it seems to serve the family more than the couple, ideas like family honour too, which really have no substance – pride can make us do the stupidest things. if parents choose to deprive their children of making their own decisions then child birth is just a form of immortality whereby your not really creating a new individual but are creating a mindless being thats born to follow the orders of the parent. parents must understand that they cannot live forever by controlling the lives of their grown children, they belong to themselves and have their own perspective and choices to make. there comes a time when parents need to let go for their childrens sake. justifications for going along with an arranged marriage like the ones that involve ‘out of respect for parents’ and the such are ridiculous, no parent deserves respect if they disregard their son or daughters adult choices. not to sound offensive but i really think this is a primitive ritual and because of natural conservative tendencies in all human beings, the SAME tendencies that created arranged marriages (to prevent marriage to different class, caste or race) are the same conservative feelings that prevent arranged marriages from being abolished, even under huge scrutiny, its just seen as ‘culture’ now. i think its injustice and i think as countries continue to develope and women are no longer restrained from contributing to the economy, women will gain more respect and power and they will no longer settle for being the simple house keeper and baby makers. main point though: a girl is shy and doesnt often meet new people, does that mean that she should have an arranged marriage or that she perhaps needs more freedom and TIME? girls shouldnt be rushed over selfish reasons like men like young women so theres a better chance of finding a succesful man with a younger daughter. finding a reproductive mate is natural for all living creatures, the decisions are usually based on what characteristics you want your children to inherit (for humans -looks, features, intelligence etc) AND the chances of survival (ie financial security, social status). these are things that in all fairness, should only be decided by the individual with their own preferences. arranged marriages are a disgrace in my eyes.
bit more about people being conservative, only wanting to marry their own race for example, i cant help but notice how beautiful most mixed race individuals are, i personally think thats a challenge for humans to overcome. diversity in the gene pool can only be a GOOD thing and we need to stop seeing different ‘races’ as competition for survival for your own race. is there really that much difference between us? weve only had SLIGHT environment induced differences like skin colour and hair colour and thickness etc, mostly to do with how much sun exposure you have in your part of the world, we can still reproduce with different ‘races’ and animals cant so were really more similar than we think. i know alot of people who have struggled in multi racial relationships and have stayed strong committed to the relationships and they have been blessed with beautiful children, i personally think diversity is a good thing, promotes not advantages in geneology but also a respect for differences and tolerance, multi racial people are often more aware of difference in the world and are broad-minded.
I’m so glad to see that Indian people, especially the men posting on this board are not all of the typical sort. I agree on both the geneological point as well as on the matter of the sexism inherent in the system we have. Women need (and should) not be virgins when they marry. They’re entitled to their share of life experience, and contrarily, having sex is healthy human behaviour, regardless of sex. This way, women know the truths of the world, and don’t rely on their sleazebag husbands’ (or their conventional moral code’s) grossly exaggerated ideals.
I also disagree fervently with akshay’s point of view, with all due respect. No woman is ‘homelier’ or less beautiful than another. The implication that Indian women are less driven hormonally, or inferior to any other woman of any other race or otherwise, and that in turn is what justifies arranged marriages is a ridiculous notion. And also one that inspires indignance in me.
It’s so unfair that girls are expected to keep their dupattas pasted on their shoulders, not speak at all to boys, never know about the birds and the bees till like 20 years or something, then obediently spread their legs to some unknown, gross, slobbery computer geek husband on their wedding nights.
I am a typical American 37 year old-blonde, blue eyes, pretty enough, smart enough, not looking to get married just to do it, but if the right guy came along-great! Well, an Indian man at work pursued me and eventually we went out and I began to really enjoy him…we started dating and within a couple of months slept together. Dropped like a hot potato and the next thing I see is him and his BRIDE TO BE on his family website!!! Yes, how unbelievably cruel and low-down-“oh, i can’t have sex with my virgin bride, so i’ll go to the slutty American for it! He is also a sikh which is more unbelievable!!! So, yes this experience makes me think very lowly of the Indian culture. Oh and by the way my American parents (with Irish, German and French heritage) have been happily married for 45 years! I say Eastern Indians go back to where you came from if you are going to treat American women in this way!!!! Sickos!!!
Sistah,
Don’t hate the playah, hate the game.
Peace
Don’t hate the playah, hate the game.
I never bought into that expression as I cannot see it making sense.
Why not hate the player as well if it is an immoral game he has chosen to play?
RKK, you suck! Don’t hate, procreate! (Actually, I really hope you don’t.)
Playboy: It wasn’t a game to me…i don’t just sleep around with anyone-i really cared for him, so if you do this to women as a game then you’re really diluting yourself!!! What are you afraid of?! Thank you RK Kahn for your support. To all American women just please be aware of Eastern Indian men because of their culture has poisened there souls!!!
Yes, and beware of 37-year olds, since their bitterness causes them to over-generalize to the point of prejudice; it also apparently destroys their ability to think.
1) “Eastern Indian”? No. Indian-American, South Asian, Desi…fine. But that? NO.
2) I’m an American woman too, even though my parents were from India. Stop being so ignorant.
3) You sleep with someone brown and suddenly you are endowed with enough expertise as to evaluate an entire culture and proclaim it “poisoned”(that’s the correct spelling, FYI); are you kidding me with this shit? That must have been some potent spooge, to make you such an expert on “Eastern Indians”.
4) What is your problem? Everyone gets their heart broken, everyone gets lied to– you’re not special. You’re not the only one. “Eastern Indians” aren’t the only assholes out there, and poor, persecuted blue-eyed, simpering blondes aren’t the only victims. Get over yourself, preferably somewhere else, so we don’t have to read more of your inane comments. Having a broken heart doesn’t give you a license to be an idiot or a harridan.
Ask yourself why you are HERE, on a blog that your ex- probably doesn’t even read. What are you trying to accomplish, by spewing your comments in this space, as if we are all guilty for what one dick did to you? Does ranting on an “Eastern Indian” website really make you feel better? Are you going to let him have so much power over you that your bitterness turns you in to a bigot?
Anna, for one thing you sound like the one who is bitter…I am not sure what you mean by the word spooge? your quite discusting if it is what i think you are referring!!! Anna, did i hit a sore note with you? Is it o.k. to use an American women because he cannot sleep with his virgin fiance? It has nothing to do with prejudice- it is the propoganda that is taught and you bought into it! I don’t know any American women (besides me) who have been totally taken advantage of and lied to in the way that i was, so yes we may have all had our hearts broken before, but this man went after me for months straight (after working together for 1 year) and then proceeded to sleep with me. I would never have found this man attractive and now especially do not find your culture attractive- So, honey you can have them! Be careful about who you call the idiot here! The reason I am here on a blog is becuase I put in “why indian men cheat before marriage” and many, many sites came up!!!Who the hell cares if he reads it-i just want to warn beautiful American women to watch out for your type!!! If this is as prevelant as it seems (using American, Aussie, European women) and it is o.k. than who is the one who is a bigot?! It was blatant, and insidious what he did knowing full well that he was getting engaged to a virgin and couldn’t sleep with her until the wedding night-it goes beyond getting hurt! If you want to stick up for someone- you should be sticking up for the rights of Indian women being able to bed before marriage.
There is no point in attempting to reason with the logic-free. You’re going to read whatever you want to in my comments, no matter how far off you actually are from reality, since you are so…affected by your breakup. Best wishes to you, now take your tirades elsewhere.