what on earth is wrong with our intelligence? this is disturbing, to type the least:
The US military in Afghanistan has apologised for detaining a BBC World Service reporter and interrogating him at its Bagram air base near Kabul. Kamal Sadat, an Afghan who also worked for Reuters, was taken from his home in eastern Afghanistan by US soldiers late on Wednesday.
…Mr Sadat is a well-known reporter in Afghanistan for the BBC’s Pashto and Dari language services.
Based in the province of Khost near the Afghan-Pakistan border, he has worked for the corporation for almost two years.
…Speaking after his release, the reporter said he was never told where he was.
He said he was kept in a small, windowless cell, blindfolded most of the time and interrogated by an American official about his work.
if this is a “well-known” reporter, why are we behaving like this? oh, right. it’s because we probably don’t have any pashto or dari speakers paying attention to such figures. i’m no expert, (have a field day with that admission in comments, why don’t you) but that seems like poor “strategery”, to me.
if indeed that WAS the case, then honestly, is it THAT hard to ring up the beeb and ask, “yo, is this terrorist a reporter like he says he is? oh, word? all right-y then…our bad.”
it’s fine to be vigilant, but please, do your homework. breaking down someone’s door, displaying menacing behaviour towards their innocent family members and confiscating the tools of their trade…that’s a fine way to treat a journalist who works for the largest press-outfit of our most beleaguered “ally”.
Many of these mistakes occur because the US army and intelligence officers do not bother to understand the nuances in the society they are occupying — whether it’s Iraq or Afghanistan. I guess to them, one brown person is the same as another. There are also many more Muslims who have the same or similar names than other religions (although the Greeks have fewest first names because everyone has to be named after a Saint — and there are only so many of them). Thus there is more room for intelligence error — which is why most of the people arrested are usually innocent.
I was watching the 9/11 memorial. Almost every Indian name was pronounced wrong — sometimes horribly wrong!! Shouldn’t someone have told the them how to pronounce the names they were reading? It was only 10 or 15 per person. How are you honoring someone if you can’t even bother to learn how to say their name properly?
I have a link on my website to an American military officer in Iraq who has just arranged to have an Iraqi girl have life-saving surgery in the United States. He posted about it on his website ChiefWiggles
and within a short time an American physician said he would take the case. They are now trying to arrange the details, visa, etc. Enough nuance for you, T?
Oh, and Anna, you’re right. If the report is accurate, it is definitely something that should be looked into further. How did it happen, on what information did they decide to take this jounalist and why was he kept without recourse for the time reported? Troubling.
MD: You’re talking exception rather than the rule. Also kindness and altruism can exist within the idea of cultural imperialism. Like the American doctor in “City of Joy.”
Hysteria is ridiculous. I was recruited by the US Govt. in 2002 when I graduated because I speak Urdu and Pashto, etc. etc., (and a slew of languages they would have found useful), but then rejected because I wasn’t a US citizen and they didn’t think it’d be appropriate to have me working for them. I’m still not sure how that worked out, given that they hired a Turkish friend of mine to do something similar and gave her citizenship.
Just a quick question for those providing “Analysis” here. Do you folks know what the US Army and other services have available when you make statements such as “US army and intelligence officers do not bother to understand the nuances in the society they are occupying — whether it’s Iraq or Afghanistan”
I agree that a mistake was made here, and with the sheer size of operations mistakes do occur. Nothing is without a flaw. But to make sweeping comments about operations which no one here really has any detailed information on is pretty ignorant.
I have had the opportunity to talk to some Special Operations folks, and the one thing that comes clear is they very much understand where they are, and DO NOT underestimate their advesaries as “just common brown folk”. These guys are very professional, intelligent, and tread lightly.
Also, that girl is not an isolated case. The WSJ published an account of a boy who helped turn in his father along with upto 40 baathists/foreigners in Fallujah/Ramadi. He was protected by US Soldiers, lived with them, to the point where everyone in the unit decided if bringing him to America had to be done by smuggling him in a transport, so be it. Letting the Kid loose ont the streets would be signing his death warrant.
I find it amusing that folks comment on how the Army does things, but has no information on the training given, how commanders approach problems, and in general have no objective information to provide their monday morning quarterbacking.
Again, problems do occur as a result of the sheer size of the operations. Also, bad apples and idiots also exist. But to make general sweeping comments about any group (including muslims obviously) is ignorant.
dear comma,
i’m not “sweeping” anything (housework isn’t my thing, darling). 😉 i can’t speak for T or the others, but i wrote because i read someting, felt the hairs on my neck move, and felt inspired/disturbed enough to raise my voice.
i’m proud to disclose that i come from a military family. i’m slightly aware of what we’re doing over “there”.
that said, i think it’s okay to question our “mistakes”. i’m glad you spoke to people who seemed sensitive; i’ve talked to the opposite. i’m also aware that you may have been aiming your comments at other comment-leavers, and i’m not implying that i took anything that you said personally.
i wrote this post because i think that (and this is the former political campaign manager within writing) we should deal very carefully with the press. perhaps the interrogation could have commenced AFTER we knew he was evil? say, after the phone call to the BBC?
one of the points i was trying to make was that our intelligence isn’t what it should be. i have nothing but respect for those who serve so that i may sit on my fatty, undisciplined ass in my air-conditioned, shower-equipped, suburban castle in safety. i can run my mouth via blog all i want b/c of the people you spoke to who “tread lightly”.
maybe if THEY had been in afghanistan, we wouldn’t be apologising for yet another **ck-up. unfortunately, since the good soldiers you spoke to were not there, a mistake happened, and we laywomen and men get to QB to our heart’s content, because that’s why your special ops buddies put themselves on the line in the first place– to protect our right to do so…even when we aren’t privy to their training, commanders or information.
aim high,
anna 🙂
Brings to mind a fav Margaret Thatcher quote from back in the day – it was along the lines of “some people, for some reason, consider it sophisticated to compare the Worst of the West with the Best of the enemy. I don’t – I just consider it ignorant.”
I agree w/ anna – we oughtta set high standards BUT I fiercely disagree with “T”
Anna,
My comments were in response to T’s comments, not yours. You are absolutely correct. One less thing we have to apologize about is obviously a better thing.
I thank your family for having served in the Military. It just peeves me when people make generalizations about folks in the Military without having an ounce of knowledge about it.
I too have talked to bone heads that usually fall under that 10 percent rule of stupidity.
I agree that we have to set high standards. If a mistake happens, we have to own up and try harder. The fact the BBC article says the US Govt has apologized, it gives me some measure of confidence that it was not brushed away.
Lowering standards to meet requirements is never an option.
Sincerely, Comma ( I drop em like pennies in a toll booth)
Lots of Sepia, not much Mutiny.
Vinod: Just disagree, you don’t have to be fierce about it.
Comma: I guess you’re an expert because you’ve talked to a “some Special Operations folks.” Gimme a break!! My opinion is as valid as yours. You have a different POV — just like occupiers will always see things differently than the occupied.
I guess we need those stories like those of the soldiers helping the little girl or boy to feel better about oureslves for our supporting actions that have led to the mutilation and deaths of thousands of other children.
The only reason the US army is in Iraq and Afghanistan is because Americans are terrified that they could be attacked again. To eliminate a few who could do us harm, we as a society have agreed that we are willing to accept the death of thousands of innocent civilians to bring that about. This is a perfectly valid position to take (I am also partial to my own skin) — but let’s just be honest about it. We are not in Irag or Afghanistan to help the people there. Also, it’s silly to expect people who are trained to kill (the army) to also be kind and gentle to the people they conquer. LetÂ’s leave that to the NGOÂ’s.
Finally, IÂ’ve noticed that most people who have a conservative POV (for war, against social programs, tax cuts, protecting the environment, etc.) usually resort to cheap name calling when someone expresses an opinion that is contrary to theirs.
Why are all you people so angry? Chill out and spread a little love.
dear comma,
thank you for writing back. 🙂 i’ll tell my three airmen that you thank them. they’ll be perplexed, yet grateful. 😉
sincerely,
anna
. . .
T, i hear you. i thank you for bringing the mutiny. 🙂 i know your comment wasn’t necessarily aimed at me, but i’m going to respond anyway.
i’m actually against the war in iraq; i’m just not a total retard about it.
i have family in afghanistan right now. did i want them to go over there? who in their right mind does? but we were attacked. it was savage and nightmarish and we retaliated. i never harboured any delusions that we’re there to plant daisies and make it all better. i may have more in common with your views than you think.
i weep at the potential sacrifice that my three loved ones in the air force are making, for all of us. i don’t want their lives wasted on just anything. i think we are creating terrorists faster than we can kill them. having family members who serve in kuwait, qatar and now afghanistan gave me a slightly different angle on all of this.
that’s why i was so disappointed that we detained kamal sadat. the people that i know in the military are heroic, moral individuals who serve tirelessly and strive to treat those they meet with dignity.
if one soldier with feces for brains puts an iraqi on a leash, that soldier denigrates all of our troops. that soldier also endangers them, because our enemy will be that much more vindictive with captive americans. that’s why i hold our men and women to a higher standard. because i have to. because i can.
do i have a conservative viewpoint? sometimes. but i am voting dem in this election, i support the right of my favourite blogger to marry the boy of his dreams, i want a ban on assault weapons and unlike my vicious mother, i don’t think we should destroy the department of education. 🙂
sepia mutiny isn’t elephant-land. 😉 i wanted to make sure i stated that. we go out of our way to be dark and balanced.
i didn’t see that anyone called you names, but perhaps i wasn’t reading carefully. i’ve heard liberals sling a few blue zingers as well. conservatives don’t have a monopoly on bad debating tactics, you know. 😀
again, i didn’t pick up on any anger, but that’s just me. i think i explained why i was upset. i also worry that you feel unloved. well please don’t. you are very cared for and wanted, T. we couldn’t be mutinous without you. 🙂
MD, it’s great that there’s people out there doing wonderful work like this such as “Doctors without borders”, many other NGOs from secular to religious, as well as many military personnel stories I have heard over the past 3 years (I wish sometimes I had ability to contribute like this). But T, is unfortunately correct. It is much easier to destroy then to create. I remember when the Iraq attacks first started and I’m not exactly sure how many days later, but the media focused on a child that had lost his whole family and lost his limbs as well. And I remember this stupid ass reporter asking if they had aked this kid why the US was in Iraq — even if he did know, why the fuck would he care, we just destroyed his whole family and left him crippled.
Anna is correct that we do need to hold ourselves to higher standard, since the world used to to regard the US in this manner. However, and I’m no military expert, but like , I have had friends in the military; and our military was not meant for the kind peace missions they are currently doing in Iraq, and to a lesser degree in Afganistan. Remember how GWB pledged to give $3B to Afganistan? Well when it came down to it he didn’t (much like a lot of things he has done), and congress had to fill the embarrasment with a quick $300mil. But this hasn’t helped Afg. at all — the tribal warlords have taken over using some of the former taliban as security, Hamid Karzai actually extended to the taliban for help, Afg. has produced over 3000 metric tons last year, and are looking to double that by the end of this year and I could go on…some of these tribal warlords have been using the US to destroy their enemies by giving the US military false information, this could be one such instance.
The basic problem is that even before 9/11, this administration went out it’s way to destroy benefits for veterans — they cut funding to the VA for the stupid tax cuts. They spent nearly $70B for Iraq before requesting an additional $87B. Numerous stories have come out about families having to buy protective gear for their family members, they still haven’t provided the best gear for them over there, Rumsfeld tried to prevent Vet groups from offering help to newely disabled vets, tried to destroy the benefits for them, they prevented 20,000 (!) people from retiring effectively ruining their plans for the future, we have about 6000 crippled men and women, many of these people are reservist who’s lives have been ruined because they haven’t been around for the last three years to provide for their families!! And are we safer, fuck no(Bush hasn’t even funded homeland projects, but let’s worry about GAY marriage)…our own State Department had to correct 8 pages of errors that showed more terrorist attacks occured in the past 2years then ever before!
MD You mentioned you really are doc, so tell me what kind of people go out of their way to make 10-20000 thousand suffer in New York, especially those that helped in the aftermath of 9/11.
I’m sorry for the long spiel, I was never fond of Bush; but I have seen how this administration has thrown away not just US Citizens lives, but those of other nation’s for our safety, but throug it’s own hubris and arrogance produced nothing but dislike, hatred and contempt for us; and our soldiers suffer as a result…
T,
I harbor no animosity towards you or your kind. As a matter of fact I don’t really hate anyone. It does disappoint me however when we start talking in generalizations and not deal with facts.
Is the Iraq and Afghanistan campaign without controversy? Not at all. Have their been mistakes made, many of a result of not listening to our military commanders at times? Sure.
I am no Military expert and many of those who claim such status are farces also. However, I do work for the Department of Navy as a Federal Civilian and have been engaged in some role in this war of worlds. The Military is one of those places where regardless of race, you put your work in, people will appreciate you. Majority of these people are good and behave honorably. The Armed forces are trained to kill, but they have a much larger role than that.
They have decided they will do what rest of the society will not do, for society’s own sake. Now only citizens can truly decide what these men and women will do. If they fight Hitler, they are called liberators. When they go to Vietnam, they are called baby killers. In fact, they are neither. They are givers. They are giving up their own lifestyles, basic liberties, families, and possibly their lives upon the request of the country. They have no option and simply do their jobs. It is the civilan authority that has command of the armed forces.
I have been a supporter of the Afghanistan campaign. I supported the Iraq campaign, but have had reservations about the methodology from the onset. I did not vote for GW in the past election, but GW has been the President and has to make decisions in which direction to go. Some have been good, some bad, many inconclusive.
I am also not a ‘conservative’. My viewpoints range the complete spectrum of this static and inflexible idea of a left-right. By making a sterotypical comment on saying how people who vote or voice their opinions on the environment, taxes, social norms, etc are vicious is not fair. Saying you have seen conservatives simply resort to name calling is unfair. Everyone does that. Even if I were a conservative, why is it a bad thing or evil thing? Opinions are always valid. However, that does not make one person right over the other. Only the truth and facts can lead to that decision.
Everyone has a right to think and express themselves, how can we not? It is human. And I actually 100% agree with you that we are not engaged in these conflicts to be simply the generous westeners. There is a self interest at stake, this is where the Administration made a gaffe in my opinion. It should have been clearly stated that WE DO have a self interest as every nation on this planet does and as every single human being does.
The reason I picked out some ‘special operations’ folks is because your earlier statement mentioned
“US army and intelligence officers do not bother to understand the nuances in the society they are occupying — whether it’s Iraq or Afghanistan.”
and was only rebutting with some info that was passed on to me. In this limited scope of debate, I thought that was the most objective statement I could make. I gave credit where due and did not say I knew about it. The first thing I will admit is that I do not have all the facts. But when quoting folks, they will be given their due credit.
Also, I have not seen anyone here call you a name. You have expressed yourself with a passion that is admirable. In this electronic communcation method though, tone is mistaken at times. If you feel in any way attacked, then that was not my idea. Simply debate of ideas.
The truth always lies somewhere in between. As events unfold only time can tell where your opinions stand against mine or others.
Sincerely, Comma (Funny how you get certain names)
P.S.- Anna: Tell your Airmen not to be perplexed. They shoulder a very heavy burden of society. The least I can say is “Thanks”.
Anna: You’re beautiful inside and out!!! Hope your loved ones, as well as all the other US soldiers, come home safe as soon as possible.
Comma: Thanks for taking the time to explain your position. I don’t like labels either but sometimes one tends to paint with a broad brush to get the point across quickly. No disrespect was intended. Peace and love!